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Light Tactical Armoured Vehicle: Second attempt.

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  • The funding problem isn't caused by the NS procurement programs - blokes walking up mountains in the dark carrying 90lbs of gear with the soles of their boots held on with electrical tape was happening long before steel was cut for a P60...

    The funding problem isn't just something that can be blamed on politicians and anti-defence CS in the DOD - recently I asked on here about what kind/sized deployments would be best for the development of DF skills and doctrine. The answers I got, from serving soldiers, were about what would be cheapest.

    Truth is, some of the attitudes you complain about lie closer to home than some like to think...

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    • Originally posted by REX View Post
      GttC, if we would stump up the cash, they would supply the parts. The simple fact is, as the Deputy Director of Transport said a couple of years ago to us in Athlone, unless it's a ship there's no money for it. for about 6 months in 2016 we had a situation where even some of the most basic parts were not allowed be held at unit level. I was ordering clutches for Pajeros but having to wait 3 weeks for them because they weren't even available in LVBWS. The Transport budget has been savaged to pay for ships, so the moral of the story is it's good to have an Admiral as COS, as long as you're in the navy. It went from 2 new ships to 3, and now another Multi-roll ship is to be added to the fleet. They must be planning on increasing the At Sea allowance because at the current rates they're struggling to man the ships they have!
      The issue was caused by the army buying the wrong vehicle. If you keep buying vehicles you can't keep on the road, you're buying something wrong from the outset.Dating back to the 1960s history keeps repeating itself with very few exceptions.

      They buy in relatively cheap as lead operators and suffer the consequences. Don't buy support packages and wonder why they get screwed in support!

      I bought a Mitsubshi Lancer the same year the pajeros were in service, 209,000 kms on it to date.... serviced twice per year and one set of brake pads since new, two sets of tyres...what the fcuk is the army doing.!

      The Navy thing... obviously the officer in question is a thick cnut... we have a 35 year old ship in service that is more reliable than the entire army transport fleet!. How many variants of vehicles within the army have lasted as long or done the mileage! Procurement have bought some real mingers over the last 30 years and then fcuked off not standing over them. Best purchase the army made since '00..Merc TCVs, Nissan Patrols...nothing else has lasted the course...
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • You may notice that the army demanded special wheels for their Pajeros. Why they thought the standard wheel and tyre wasn't up to standard when the rest of the car was is a mystery to me.
        I can only assume a non standard tyre and wheel fit will play havoc with drivetrain, steering and suspension. The special light setup the DoD required also was something non standard, and modern witing looms do not like things being spliced into them after initial manufacture without serious rebuild of diagnostic software.
        Am I on the right track?
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
          You may notice that the army demanded special wheels for their Pajeros. Why they thought the standard wheel and tyre wasn't up to standard when the rest of the car was is a mystery to me.
          I can only assume a non standard tyre and wheel fit will play havoc with drivetrain, steering and suspension. The special light setup the DoD required also was something non standard, and modern witing looms do not like things being spliced into them after initial manufacture without serious rebuild of diagnostic software.
          Am I on the right track?
          Is it so they could take off road tyres??

          The NATO lighting is a requirement (as is whatever fit out is required to make it FFR capable).

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          • Murph, they bought the support package from Mowag and look what happened in Liberia. The lads there had to do urgent work on the cars in the field when they broke down and Mowag threw a hissy fit and blamed the boots on the ground for going outside warranty. No sign of Mowag techs in Liberia. The cars would be rotting in Liberia if the lads hadn't done what they did.....same all over the DF, manufacturers hold the DoD to ransom over support packages because the DoD people are too inexperienced or too afraid to negotiate hard with suppliers.

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Is it so they could take off road tyres??...
              pretty unlikely - all the Japanese 4X4's will happily take either road tyres off-road tyres straight out of the box with no buggering about with wheels.

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              • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                Murph, they bought the support package from Mowag and look what happened in Liberia. The lads there had to do urgent work on the cars in the field when they broke down and Mowag threw a hissy fit and blamed the boots on the ground for going outside warranty. No sign of Mowag techs in Liberia. The cars would be rotting in Liberia if the lads hadn't done what they did.....same all over the DF, manufacturers hold the DoD to ransom over support packages because the DoD people are too inexperienced or too afraid to negotiate hard with suppliers.
                Which I assume delivered everything to base workshops stores (or whatever it is called now), which then had to go through the(assumingly bureaucratic) DF system and possibly (the even more bureaucratic) UN system.

                Didn’t they cannibalise? Which voided the warranty?

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                • When there isn't even barcoding in the DF logs system you know what the score is

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                  • stone age filing systems which depend on storemans' memory...

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                    • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      Murph, they bought the support package from Mowag and look what happened in Liberia. The lads there had to do urgent work on the cars in the field when they broke down and Mowag threw a hissy fit and blamed the boots on the ground for going outside warranty. No sign of Mowag techs in Liberia. The cars would be rotting in Liberia if the lads hadn't done what they did.....same all over the DF, manufacturers hold the DoD to ransom over support packages because the DoD people are too inexperienced or too afraid to negotiate hard with suppliers.
                      There were still Mowags laid up 5 years after the Liberia Mission.......I have the photos to prove it.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by apod View Post
                        That is a really ridiculous justification for taking on a tasking that the Corps was never intended or suited to carrying out.What's next Engineers becoming medics to "diversify"??
                        OT, but there is or was a shit-ton of EFR-qualified RDF engineers at a certain location, courtesy of the efforts of a certain DFTC sergeant.

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                        • That is a really ridiculous justification for taking on a tasking that the Corps was never intended or suited to carrying out.
                          But Recce was always a Cavalry tasking, in fact its primary tasking, CTR just took it in another direction , just shouldn't have overlapped with those who were already doing in in a similar capacity in order to justify existence.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • Medium recce is a Cav job

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                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Medium recce is a Cav job
                              What Dev said.Medium Recce mounted in armour was and is a Cav task.light role was always Infantry.
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                              • I have always been taught:
                                Inf: Bn level - close recce up to 5km out
                                Cav: Bde level - Med Recce up to 30km out
                                SoF: Div level - LLR 30-50km

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