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Light Tactical Armoured Vehicle: Second attempt.

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  • I see €6.5m has been set aside for this project in the Estimates for 2008...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • My squadron is trying to figure out just what the hell to do with the new M1151s (Super-heavy HMMWVs) we just got. Supposedly it's our light recon vehicle, we have a few of them in the same platoon as a few Bradleys.

      Problem is that the thing is so heavily armoured, it's not even road-legal in the US due to axle loading limits. We presume it'll sink like a rock as soon as we take it offroad on anything except hard desert. Since we have 'em, we'll play with them, but we're not entirely sure what people were thinking when they sent them our way.

      NTM
      Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        I see €6.5m has been set aside for this project in the Estimates for 2008...
        Does that fund the entire fleet or the first batch?

        How do they arrive at Euro 6.5m if they don't have a vehicle in mind.

        Just interested in the procurement process.

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        • Its a surprise to me too. Its an initial figure. Presumably they'll need to get vehicles of the type for chad from somewhere, quickly. Handy to have the money lyin about.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • well the Brit's new Panther vehicles worked out at around 400k! each, so let's hope the DF are better negociators on this, 200k each seems reasonable for the type they want, so
            Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

            Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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            • Originally posted by Orion View Post
              Does that fund the entire fleet or the first batch?

              How do they arrive at Euro 6.5m if they don't have a vehicle in mind.

              Just interested in the procurement process.
              from the DOD press release

              a €6.5m initial down payment on Light Tactical Armoured Vehicles;
              It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
              It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
              It was a new age...It was the end of history.
              It was the year everything changed.

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              • Panther is equivalent to Bushmaster which is being used as an armoured convoy protection vehicle by the Aussies at a humongous development cost..and its not an LTAV and certainly not runner as an recce vehicle, These vehicles are only re hash's of a 60's concept of the bedford RL MPV and the Casipir...


                If ypu want light tactical vehicles you have to think lower than something based on a truck chassis most of the current vehiclesare in the medium truck class..think outside that box!!

                Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.


                Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.


                ****..I learned to drive in one of these.

                This is wher the concept came from



                also this was a fore runner




                and really back to basics

                Last edited by hptmurphy; 16 December 2007, 01:17.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  Panther is equivalent to Bushmaster which is being used as an armoured convoy protection vehicle by the Aussies at a humongous development cost..and its not an LTAV and certainly not runner as an recce vehicle, These vehicles are only re hash's of a 60's concept of the bedford RL MPV and the Casipir...
                  The Bushmaster is a fair bit bigger than the Panther:

                  Link to Panther's Specs

                  Link to Bushmaster's Specs
                  "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                  • I wasn't being specific about specs just they all start to look the same now..big boxy bullet magnets..hardly suitable for LTAV or recce vehicles.

                    These just remind me of the Humber PIG and are all starting to look alike.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      I wasn't being specific about specs just they all start to look the same now..big boxy bullet magnets..hardly suitable for LTAV or recce vehicles.
                      The Puma is pretty much the same size as the Panther, does that make it a big bullet magnet too?
                      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                      • I've said it before, IMO, the french VBL is the best option for a recce vehicle....
                        What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                        • We tried the VBL some time ago in the early 90's far too limited. Was considered as a replacement for the AML's.



                          this is what I mean about every thing looking the same.

                          I suppose operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have changed opinions on whats needed.

                          I think we have to go back and look what the definition of what is actually required.
                          Are we looking for a recce vehicle with armour... a scout car , a successor to the AML or a mini APC for insertion work.?

                          Should it be an internal security vehicle type , should it replace the recce roles currently carried out by softskins how big should it be?

                          the DF's spec while precise doesn't actually specify who will use them, is it to be an infantry specific vehicle....is it to be a drop vehicle for CTR teams, should it be an armoured patrol vehicle.

                          A lot the above meet these criteria but most have been specifically designed with internal secrity ops in mind which is fine if you have various other vehicles to do day to day work and larger APCs for section deployment

                          So are we looking for something between Nissans and Mowag ? Given the budget waht is the actual reality of what we can buy..and in enough numbers to give them a credible role of their own.
                          No point in buying a handful of top spec vehicles that will never have to carry out all the roles envisaged by the manufacturer while we could buy a medium spec vehicle in greater numbers that are more general role specific.

                          I'm not arguing the specifics of any particular vehicle but the requirement is so loosley defined that its hard to envisage any of the above been made available in significant numbers because of budgetary constrictions.

                          Given the amount of money spent on Mowags and given that they are relatively small number s we have purchased and they are very flexible do we really need another top of the range vehicle at huge expense per unit or should we and move oout of the box and buy in numbers that reflect the needs and bear in mind that we have Large APCs to carry out the real heavy duty work.

                          I know that this will raise the question of purchasing sub requirement vehicles but there is no point in having twenty over spec vehicles as opposed to 40 mid range vehicles.

                          Personally I think the Mowags were far to expensive for what they are and would be against heading down the same road in search for a secondary armoured vehicle.

                          Lives versus cost....the more lives you can put in armour as opposed to a few in high spec vehicles would be my argument. Think of the immediate threat and not get hung up on the what ifs.

                          Given the high maintaince and attrition rates in the mowags , would it be worth it going down the road of having a top of the range vehicle which becomes a drain on resources due to high cost of maintainence?
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                            Thanks for the link CTU.

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                            • €6.5 million downpayment..hmm interesting.

                              Wonder what is the overall projected cost of the project?

                              How many vehicles are required?

                              What is the DF s requirement as opposed to what the minister will pay for?

                              What is the projected time scale of the project?

                              Can these vehicles be purchase off the shelf or will they have the usual Irish quirks that will hold up delivery?
                              Will they be available for the proposed deployment to Chad?

                              How far down the procurement road is the DF ? or is it just begining?



                              The Czech Minister for Defence announced today that the selection procedure for the new light armored vehicle has been cancelled, as none of the vehicles has fully met their requirements.

                              Sound familiar?
                              Kills me as it does I tend to agree with this point of view and think it might be an excuse to spend the budget on more Mowags...wouldn't be the firts time this has happened given that two years ago ther was a budget of €25million to buy a Cav specific vehicle and we ended up with more Mowags.
                              Last edited by hptmurphy; 16 December 2007, 22:24.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • China VBL knock off, the VN3 family

                                "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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