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Thread: Modern Pirates

  1. #1301
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    Adopt the Russian approach, ie, destroy all bar one boat, cram them all aboard with a modest quantity of water and Russian rations and point them in the direction of Somalia.......from a good distance out, of course...;-)

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  3. #1302
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    From the Examiner article on the gift to Malta, it's suggested that it will be a navy ship being sent to Africa:http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...ta-313305.html
    Meanwhile, the Naval Service looks poised to send ships to the Horn of Africa as part of an EU anti-piracy mission.

    The Department of Defence confirmed that initial work on a contribution by Ireland to the EU maritime mission, Operation Atalanta, is being undertaken.

    It is likely that the Naval Service would send one of its newer ships out to the north-east coast of Africa, where Somali pirates in particular have reeked havoc with commercial shipping.

    The EU launched Operation Atalanta in December 2008 in response to the rising levels of piracy in the Western Indian Ocean.

    Incidents of piracy have fallen recently from a peak in 2011 when Somali pirates launched attacks on an almost daily basis, sometimes holding cargo and crew hostage for huge ransoms.

    A number of the ships were heading for Europe with important cargoes.

    The EU decided to act to protect economic interests and vessels operating the World Food Programme in Somalia.

    It is expected that Irish vessels sent to the Horn of Africa would typically work two-week patrols with three days off over a three-to-four-month period.

    The Naval Service will shortly be back up to full strength after losing two of its eight vessels for a number of months due to asbestos contamination.

    The new €50m LÉ James Joyce is due to be delivered to the Navy around St Patrick’s weekend.

  4. #1303
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    Just saw this on the Examiner.........

    "Meanwhile, the Naval Service looks poised to send ships to the Horn of Africa as part of an EU anti-piracy mission.

    The Department of Defence confirmed that initial work on a contribution by Ireland to the EU maritime mission, Operation Atalanta, is being undertaken.

    It is likely that the Naval Service would send one of its newer ships out to the north-east coast of Africa, where Somali pirates in particular have reeked havoc with commercial shipping."

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...ta-313305.html

  5. #1304
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    I'd read that as up to a vessel

  6. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I'd read that as up to a vessel
    In reality two units allowing for transits.working up and refits.

  7. #1306
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    Didn't the Minister say in the Dail last year that he was looking at proposals including deploying a PV for up to 4 mths

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    "As part of the European Union’s efforts to enhance regional states’ maritime security capabilities in the Horn of Africa, on 15 March EUCAP Nestor gave six Nissan 4x4 vehicles, as well as IT and communications equipment, to the Coast Guard of the Federal Government of Somalia."


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  10. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    "As part of the European Union’s efforts to enhance regional states’ maritime security capabilities in the Horn of Africa, on 15 March EUCAP Nestor gave six Nissan 4x4 vehicles, as well as IT and communications equipment, to the Coast Guard of the Federal Government of Somalia."

    However according to Matt Bryden in "Somalia Redux" funding for enhancement and support is continually being recycled by elements of Somali Federal Government and Presidency for strategic and personal agendas. President Sharif gave a diplomatic passport to a pirate leader while the same gentleman had ships and hostages held for ransom. This pirate now runs a "rehabilitation" center for pirates to wean them from his former business? The embryo Coast Guard founded by Sharif operated in an area devoid of pirates. All in the region dress up their level of need in order to maximise funding, arms and supplies. He referred to a Somali Military commander who shelled African Union positions at night , blaming AL SHABAAB, so that he could demand extra weapons, ammunition, which he duly got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    She looks fairly light on weapons fit. Irish ships are definitely superior in that respect.(in the context of EUNAVFOR)

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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Versatile ship fitted with a lot of sensor systems plus UAV/UAS and is helo capable. Is designed and fitted for advanced weaponry but currently is token armed with a 20mm and 2X12.7's. She has space for a platoon sized team and is crewed by 30 personnel.

  15. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    A month long deployment?

    Wasn't she built on spec for the French by DCNS with a 20mm up front and a few machine guns?

    Sounds like the French are just working her up and seeing the capabilities.

  16. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Versatile ship fitted with a lot of sensor systems plus UAV/UAS and is helo capable. Is designed and fitted for advanced weaponry but currently is token armed with a 20mm and 2X12.7's. She has space for a platoon sized team and is crewed by 30 personnel.
    She's not the only European OPV design that has such weapon systems, or 30mm. Hell I've seen comments/qestions on Navweapons for example asking why we go with 76mm as standard.

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  18. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    She's not the only European OPV design that has such weapon systems, or 30mm. Hell I've seen comments/qestions on Navweapons for example asking why we go with 76mm as standard.
    There are some folk who wear naval uniforms even asking that. If some had their way the P60 would be armed with the Bofors 40mm.

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  20. #1315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    She's not the only European OPV design that has such weapon systems, or 30mm. Hell I've seen comments/qestions on Navweapons for example asking why we go with 76mm as standard.
    L'Adroit is lightly armed because she still belongs to DCNS and is only on loan to the Navy for 3 years. DCNS get their product shown off around the world (a circumnavigation of Africa in the current case) and the French Navy get a relatively flexible OPV to play with. They don't, however, appear to have long term plans for retaining her and therefore have armed her with a cast-off at nominal cost.
    As a demonstrator, she also has other deficiencies from a military perspective. For instance, all machinery (MDEs and Gensets) is in a single compartment and the survivability of the vessel is only up to commercial standards. Even a pirate RPG could make life pretty uncomfortable.

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  22. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medsailor View Post
    L'Adroit is lightly armed because she still belongs to DCNS and is only on loan to the Navy for 3 years. DCNS get their product shown off around the world (a circumnavigation of Africa in the current case) and the French Navy get a relatively flexible OPV to play with. They don't, however, appear to have long term plans for retaining her and therefore have armed her with a cast-off at nominal cost.
    As a demonstrator, she also has other deficiencies from a military perspective. For instance, all machinery (MDEs and Gensets) is in a single compartment and the survivability of the vessel is only up to commercial standards. Even a pirate RPG could make life pretty uncomfortable.
    Sounds about right. The RN initially leased all of their current River class and bought them as a package lately for 39.5 M ,GBP. I wonder is the flood-ability right as we had 2 compartment flood-ability with LE EMER onwards. There is nothing wrong with leasing except military equipment would all be GFE.

  23. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medsailor View Post
    L'Adroit is lightly armed because she still belongs to DCNS and is only on loan to the Navy for 3 years. DCNS get their product shown off around the world (a circumnavigation of Africa in the current case) and the French Navy get a relatively flexible OPV to play with. They don't, however, appear to have long term plans for retaining her and therefore have armed her with a cast-off at nominal cost.
    As a demonstrator, she also has other deficiencies from a military perspective. For instance, all machinery (MDEs and Gensets) is in a single compartment and the survivability of the vessel is only up to commercial standards. Even a pirate RPG could make life pretty uncomfortable.
    Oh sure, I don't disagree with any of that, my point however is that an OPV is always designed to be less then a Warship in most cases. They are designed to be cheap and cheerful and fufill the less than war roles, freeing up true warships for that. (another example would be the US CoastGuard going for the 57mm mounts on their new ships). If you are in a situation where the standard OPV armaments (20-76mm weapons) aren't enough for the military situation of the nation then you should look at a Corvette design or a light Frigate design (ie the Formidable class) rather than trying to shoehorn in heavier systems into a OPV design.

  24. #1318
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    I would say it's because we do not have, unlike other navies full warships or aircraft to back up our patrol ships.
    So the NS put the biggest stick our cowardly simple serpents and government allow.

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  26. #1319
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    I would say it's because we do not have, unlike other navies full warships or aircraft to back up our patrol ships.
    So the NS put the biggest stick our cowardly simple serpents and government allow.
    Like I said, the size of the stick doesn't really matter if the guy wielding it can't take a couple of hits. L'Adroit and some other designs I can think of (like the LCS) are what D.K. Brown described as philosophically unstable. They host capabilities that make them important units (at least to smaller navies) but don't have the wherewithall to protect those capabilities. A ship with good passive defences in the form of inherent survivability albeit lightly armed seems to make much more sense than a vessel that carries a bunch of gucci weapons systems, a couple of good RHIBs and a specialised boarding element but is vulnerable to the slightest damage. In the EUNAVFOR Atalanta scenario, a 76mm together with a brace of smaller cannon and some MGs is more than enough to have a reasonable offensive effect on the likely threat. A hull that can't take an RPG round or a few hits from an HMG, however, isn't going to be fit for purpose.

  27. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Oh sure, I don't disagree with any of that, my point however is that an OPV is always designed to be less then a Warship in most cases. They are designed to be cheap and cheerful and fufill the less than war roles, freeing up true warships for that. (another example would be the US CoastGuard going for the 57mm mounts on their new ships). If you are in a situation where the standard OPV armaments (20-76mm weapons) aren't enough for the military situation of the nation then you should look at a Corvette design or a light Frigate design (ie the Formidable class) rather than trying to shoehorn in heavier systems into a OPV design.
    The Modern 57mm is near identical in performance to the modern 76mm OTO Melara, that was in use with the USCG.

  28. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    The Modern 57mm is near identical in performance to the modern 76mm OTO Melara, that was in use with the USCG.
    Is that including the Straless system or the volcano rounds?

  29. #1322
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    Only if you add the Bofors 57mm Mk 3 and 3P to the mix.
    And it's Vulcano.

  30. #1323
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    Most modern naval builds are not good at taking a solid hit as they are built lightly. Often the bridge and operations/communications areas are constructed of aluminum. Elaborate chunky masts are also often of aluminum material. Hulls are at most 9mm with thickening around the keel and anchor pockets. The OPV types are usually built with MN plating around 10mm and up to 20mm in areas of wear, and are heavily insulated in aluminum areas for fire, but would need kevlar protection also in operations areas including open gun positions. An OPV built to a Llyods standard is more bullet proof than a ship built to warship scantlings.
    Ships go where directed and performance will always be proportional to ability. Give them the required weapon fit and they will perform.

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