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Thread: Modern Pirates

  1. #1276
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Who said our ships were unsuitable?



    http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...ity&Itemid=233


    SAS GALESHEWE
    I read somewhere ages ago that those ships are fondly known as 'The Vomit Comets' amongst their crews...they aren't great sea-keepers apparently.
    Oh Fortune...like the moon...you are changeable...

  2. #1277
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Yet they send them to the indian ocean on anti piracy ops, while some here suggest that our ships, designed for the Atlantic's worst are unsuitable? I'm sure the Warrior class are horrific in open water, as they were designed for the shelter of the Med or Gulf. (Israeli Sa'ar 4 Design)

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  4. #1278
    Major General apod's Avatar
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    If SMG's like the MP5 are so shite then how come nearly every serious CT team and a good many Naval and coast guard boarding teams use them??Reliability,portability and with the naval version resistant to corrosion.That's why.
    The Dept always fund every branch of the DF(ARW excluded) on the cheap.That's why the teams don't have anything bigger than a pistol.Money.No matter how much you swallow the "It's policy" BS.Or the "larger weapons are unsuitable" BS.MP5' are small light and versatile and fire the exact same round as the USP so overpenetration is not an issue.FFS the marines in the video above are using 5.56 carbines INSIDE ships.Doesn't seem to be an issue for them.Does it.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  5. #1279
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    MP5 alovely weapon although nowadays gone out of fashion due to lack of penetration with modern Body armour, I think, although In wou;ld have no problem carrying one,

    Just a question why are shotguns , No not a double barrell , considered, also why not shotguns on CIT escorts , much safer for public if shoot out occurs in Thomastown etc and at 50 Yds which is about three times the width of the average small town street,
    Are you for real?

  6. #1280
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Are you for real?
    There is a role for shotguns in a boarding party / MCT environment: breaching. As for personal weapons, the guys in the Brit video carry a primary (rifle) and secondary (pistol). Both have their uses, and BPs should be trained extensively with both, including transition drills.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  8. #1281
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    There is a role for shotguns in a boarding party / MCT environment: breaching. As for personal weapons, the guys in the Brit video carry a primary (rifle) and secondary (pistol). Both have their uses, and BPs should be trained extensively with both, including transition drills.
    Not sure about boardings and shotgun but CITs

  9. #1282
    Banned User hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Are you for real?
    I think the shot guns idea is quite a good one. I wouldn't fancy having to quantify the collateral damage if it ever came to some using a Steyr in a public area given the muzzle velocity of the round.

    Again I would agree with Goldies point that if the NS wanted MP%s they would have them.Ships carry rifles so they are available if required.

    I would suggest that the evaluation of a the threat level encountered and the availability of greater velocity back up should it be require would some what offset the need for an MP5 type weapon.

    While there is a high degree of training in the role, boarding parties in the main are of a Fisheries Monitor nature and there fore unarmed.

    Again a shot gun type weapon with a low velocity but good stopping power might be warranted if the threat level warranted it.
    Should the NS be deployed to carry out anti piracy missions abroad this threat level could be re evaluated and the weapons element adjusted accordingly.
    Here endeth the lesson!

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  11. #1283
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    Shotguns not good in confined spaces.

  12. #1284
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    shotguns are carried by gardai and CT teams as a means of gaining entry not as a weapon against individuals TTBOMK. How do you justify minimum force was used when you have used a buck shot round?

  13. #1285
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Can't comment on naval armed boardings...but trust me lads shotguns are not suitable on the street for a CIT type role.

    No use carrying shotguns if the criminal vermin you run into are toting AK's.

    5.56mm is fine if the person carrying the weapon is trained to know when / where / how to fire...which soldiers generally are.
    Oh Fortune...like the moon...you are changeable...

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  15. #1286
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Why not just ask the chaps- if a no 2 on a BP feels safer and thus more confident carrying a MP 5 or a Steyr short muzzle- then okey dokey - as long as the lads don't pick ICBM or SAMs etc then so be it......

  16. #1287
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    i think the A2K (or similar 5.56mm) is ok, but i don't think the SUSAT is the most appropriate sighting system for the task to be used by all members of the team.

    while the SUSAT might be good for the longer cross deck engagements or to engage targets on the bridge or other key structures, a better CQB sight and / or Red Dot would be more appropriate for most (but not all) members of the team - in my opinion.

    it's always going to be difficult to have all the correct tools for the job, but whether it's an all pistol or all carbine or all SMG type boarding party - we all evolve winning tactics and i wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of any modern well trained boarding party be it the Royal Marines, the Naval Service or similar.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  18. #1288
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Counter Piracy Paradrop
    On Tuesday November 12, a group of Royal Netherlands Marine Corps parachutists deployed onboard the European Union’s counter-piracy patrol flagship, HNLMS Johan de Witt, executed a parachute jump exercise while in the Gulf of Aden.

    The marines are part of the Enhanced Boarding Element of HNLMS Johan de Witt, which is deployed with the EU Naval Force Somalia – Operation Atalanta counter-piracy mission off the horn of Africa and Indian Ocean.


    Image courtesy EU NAVFOR

    EU NAVFOR says that the para jump is a unique capacity to fight piracy because there is no need for the warship to schedule a harbor visit to pick up the marines, instead they can carry on with their operational program, while the marines deploy through a para jump.

    Marines of the Netherlands Defence Para School and Guardian Angels of the United States Air Force, also stationed in Djibouti, supported the para jump exercise. They jumped out of an American C130 aircraft of the Combined Joint Task Force Horn of Africa, stationed in Djibouti.

    After two so-called “sticks” with a static line, several free fall jumpers jumped out of the craft, including a tandem jump which can be used to deploy someone who is not a trained paratrooper, like a doctor or interpreter for example.


    http://gcaptain.com/ship-photos-of-t...acy-para-jump/

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  20. #1289
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    Are those guys allowed to wear their Dutch Para Wings?

  21. #1290
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    unless the assaulting vessel is also air dropped (which is prone to other risks), then other than a speedy way to get a bunch of men into the water in the vicinity (not onto the actual ship) i don't really see this as being very effective - you still have to round them up into a smaller vessel to form an effective boarding party - which begs the question - why not let the men start the mission together in the smaller vessel launched from a larger ship in the first place?

    better to have a boarding party moving about the ship relatively dry in combats instead of already soaked to the bone in wet suits, or even worse - left bobbing around in the sea as the target ship sails away...
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  23. #1291
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    RGJ the point is to insert the sf/whatever boarding team to be picked up by a friendly ship and then move from new mothership to target vessel by rhib/helo. Saves the need to pick them up in port.
    Pillage, then burn.

    Don't expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.

    The longer everything goes according to plan, the bigger the impending disaster.

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  25. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagaz...57623615393723

    Who needs a NBT with an MP5 when you have the ARW
    Looks like a nice calm day in Dublin Bay.

  26. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintstone View Post
    Is that a criticism of Irish boarding parties? It is the Irish position that infantry assault rifles in the narrow confines of a ship, boat or yacht are not the optimum weapon. The pistol is easier to use and doesn't have the range to travel through several bulkheads, hitting God knows who.
    They'll learn.

  27. #1294
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    They'll learn.
    They have learnt.

  28. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    They have learnt.
    Apologies, I posted that one badly. I was referring to others not to long in the boarding game.

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