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Thread: Modern Pirates

  1. #26
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Reuters

  2. #27
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come-quickly View Post
    You would like to think that even a "Constabulary Navy" like the NS would be sufficiently well armed and drilled to passage theses waters safely.
    Maybe a few more trips to Africa would finally give the Navy a chance to blow something up.

    On a more serious note, given the slight expansion of the Army Support role with the EPV(s) how secure would any future travels in similar waters be for the NS?

    Within the bounds of opsec what sort of capability do the modernish/new gen PVs have in terms of sighting and engaging these sort of small vessels.
    The Effective range of a Dskh is presumably about 1.5km even when operated by an illiterate in a dinghy.
    NS vessels are operational and would IMO be sufficiently well armed to deal with the threat from pirates.

    Apart from the main armament (76 / 57 / 40mm), NS vessels are equipped with secondary armament depending on the vessel this includes: 20mm, HMG, GPMG

    http://www.military.ie/naval/flotilla/weapons/index.htm

  3. #28
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    NS vessels are operational and would IMO be sufficiently well armed to deal with the threat from pirates.

    Apart from the main armament (76 / 57 / 40mm), NS vessels are equipped with secondary armament depending on the vessel this includes: 20mm, HMG, GPMG

    http://www.military.ie/naval/flotilla/weapons/index.htm
    I'm well aware of the armament of the vessels - but tactically what is our capability to deal with the threat of multiple small boats capable of firing from over 1km out. Given the non warlike construction of the PVs bemoaned on these boards in the past I'm assuming that some sea-pikey getting the drop on one of our boaties would be both costly and humiliating.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  4. #29
    Potential Liability yellowjacket's Avatar
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    Test Pilot, your tongue-in-cheek detector appears to be experiencing technical difficulties in relation to my post about yardarms. That said; traditionally pirates were summarily executed on capture - and this punishment has the benefit of very low recidivism rates.

    Under international convention, engaging in piracy earns one the status of "Hostis humani generis" - an enemy of humanity. Nice phrase, if nothing else.
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowjacket View Post
    Test Pilot, your tongue-in-cheek detector appears to be experiencing technical difficulties in relation to my post about yardarms. That said; traditionally pirates were summarily executed on capture - and this punishment has the benefit of very low recidivism rates.

    Under international convention, engaging in piracy earns one the status of "Hostis humani generis" - an enemy of humanity. Nice phrase, if nothing else.
    YJ, seen and noted! Thank you.

  6. #31
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    Pirates can claim UK Asylum

    THE Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights.

    Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain.

    The Foreign Office has advised that pirates sent back to Somalia could have their human rights breached because, under Islamic law, they face beheading for murder or having a hand chopped off for theft.

    In 2005 there were almost 40 attacks by pirates and 16 vessels were hijacked and held for ransom. Employing high-tech weaponry, they kill, steal and hold ships’ crews to ransom. This year alone pirates killed three people near the Philippines.

    Last week French commandos seized a Somali pirate gang that had held a luxury yacht with 22 French citizens on board. The hijackers were paid off by the boat’s owner and then a French helicopter carrier dispatched 50 commandos to seize the hijackers and the ransom money on dry land.

    Britain is part of a coalition force that patrols piracy stricken areas and the guidance has troubled navy officers who believe they should have more freedom to intervene.

    The guidance was sharply criticised by Julian Brazier MP, the Conservative shipping spokesman, who said: “These people commit horrendous offences. The solution is not to turn a blind eye but to turn them over to the local authorities. The convention on human rights quite rightly doesn’t cover the high seas. It’s a pathetic indictment of what our legal system has come to.”

    A Foreign Office spokesman said: “There are issues about human rights and what might happen in these circumstances. The main thing is to ensure any incident is resolved peacefully.”

    The guidance is the latest blow to the robust image of the navy. Last year 15 of its sailors were taken prisoner by the Iranians and publicly humiliated.

    In the 19th century, British warships largely eradicated piracy when they policed the oceans. The death penalty for piracy on the high seas remained on the statute books until 1998. Modern piracy ranges from maritime mugging to stealing from merchant ships with the crew held at gunpoint.

    Marie Woolf, Whitehall Editor


    You really have to worry when politicians and civil servants try to project their own abstract values onto the actions of those at the coal face of the problem. Surely any asylum application could be rejected on the basis that the applicant is quite plainly a criminal.

    I've a number of friends who work in maritime shipping, and thankfully they haven't had any bad experiences yet. I'd be one for allowing private security contractors onto ships, they'd serve as a better deterrant and defence than a pressure hose, which might serve as a ship's best weapon at the moment.

  7. #32
    Potential Liability yellowjacket's Avatar
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    How low can that nation fall?
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  8. #33
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    Commandant Bouan escorts Le Ponant to Djibouti(nice gun)



    GIGN sniper

    You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

  9. #34
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    More photos of French intervention off Somalia

    http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=107429

    Photos taken from this website

    Helos onboard Jeanne D'Arc

  10. #35
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Funny that all types of helo photographed have been with drawn from service here.

    Certain elements of the NS would provide a good deterent against pirate attacks ..if they are to recieve the up gunning mentioned in another thread. Niamh and Roisin come to mind. but is there a mandate for such a force and what force would they operate under as relatively little Irish Registerred shipping operates in these waters.
    Just visiting

  11. #36
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    French minister for defence congratulates pilots involved in the rescue.

    You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

  12. #37
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    [QUOTE]Somali pirates seize Spanish boat

    A Spanish fishing boat with 26 crew on board has been seized by pirates off Somalia, officials in Spain say. They say the Playa de Bakio - a Basque tuna boat - was attacked about 250 miles (400km) off the coast. A source from the Basque regional government said the boat was in "international waters". The fate of the crew is unknown. Somali coastal waters are among the most hazardous in the world, despite the presence of US navy patrols.

    Grenade launchers

    A source from the Basque government's Agriculture, Fisheries and Food department told Spanish news agency Efe that four armed pirates took control of the boat using grenade launchers. The source said the crew was made up of 13 Africans and 13 Spaniards, and the boat suffered "some damage" in the attack but is "navigable".

    The boat is currently heading towards Somalia, the source added. It comes a few days after a Paris court charged six Somalis with taking a French luxury yacht's crew hostage earlier this month. The yacht's 30-member crew were held hostage for a week but released after its owners apparently paid a ransom of $2m (£1m; 1.3m euros). The pirates were then picked up by French commandos in a helicopter raid.

    Last year, more than 25 ships were seized by pirates in Somali coastal waters. Somalia has not had an effective central government for more than 17 years and is plagued by insecurity.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7357831.stm

    Here we go again...
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  13. #38
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Somali forces storm hijacked Dubai ship, arrest pirates
    By SALAD DUHUL – 1 day ago

    MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Security forces in northern Somalia stormed a hijacked ship carrying food Tuesday, rescuing hostages and arresting seven pirates, officials said. The seizure was the latest in a spate of pirate attacks off the increasingly lawless Somali coast.

    The Dubai-flagged ship, called the al-Khaleej, originated from the United Arab Emirates and was seized Monday, said Abdullahi Said Samatar, security affairs minister in Somalia's semiautonomous Puntland region.

    It was not immediately clear how many people were on board. Puntland officials announced it had been seized only after the boat was rescued.

    "Our forces rescued a small commercial boat hijacked on Monday off the coast of Bossaso town," Samatar told The Associated Press. "Three were injured in the operation and seven others will be brought to justice."

    Piracy is rampant along Somalia's 1,880-mile coast, which is the longest in Africa and near key shipping routes connecting the Red Sea with the Indian Ocean.

    Wracked by more than a decade of violence and anarchy, Somalia does not have a navy, and a transitional government formed in 2004 with U.N. help has struggled to assert control. The U.S. Navy has led international patrols to try to combat piracy in the region.

    The United States and France are drafting a U.N. resolution that would allow countries to chase and arrest pirates off Somalia's coast, responding to a spate of attacks including this week's hijacking of a Spanish tuna boat.

    France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Maurice Ripert said the resolution would authorize foreign governments to pursue pirate vessels into territorial waters, make arrests, and prosecute suspects.

    "We want to do it fast, but it could take one or two weeks because it has to be by consensus — it's not confrontational," he told the AP.

    The push by key U.N. Security Council nations to tackle the issue follows an alarming increase in piracy by well-armed bandits, prompting international demands for better protection of the world's shipping lanes.

    Pirates using rocket-propelled grenades hijacked a Spanish tuna boat on Sunday off the coast of Somalia. A day later, pirates fired on a Japanese oil tanker, unleashing hundreds of gallons of fuel into the Gulf of Aden, the body of water between Somalia's north and the southern coast of the Mideast country of Yemen.

    Earlier this month, Somali pirates hijacked a French luxury yacht in the Gulf of Aden. A French military helicopter later captured six pirates, who are facing preliminary charges in France, after the yacht's crew was released on April 11.

    The father of one of the crew members on board the 250-foot Spanish tuna boat, called the Playa de Bakio, told a radio station Monday that the vessel had dropped anchor off the Somali coast.

    The 26 crew members were being treated well, though the hijackers have stolen some personal items from their cabins, Jose Mari Arana, the father of a crew member, told Radio Euskadi Monday after speaking to his son by cell phone. The hijackers also appear to have military training, he said.

    "They say a commander is going to come to negotiate. From the way they speak, they do not seem to be classical-style pirates," Arana said.

    In a report by the International Maritime Bureau, piracy is on the rise, with seafarers suffering 49 attacks between January and March — up 20 percent from the period last year.

    Nigeria ranked as the No. 1 trouble spot. India and the Gulf of Aden tied for second, with each reporting five incidents. Nearly two dozen piracy incidents were recorded off of Somalia since January 2007, according to Andrew Mwangura of the Kenya-based Seafarers Assistance Program.

    Last week, 13 countries bordering the western Indian Ocean, the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea met in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania to discuss piracy and armed robbery at sea.

    Chris Trelawny, head of security at International Maritime Organization, said Tuesday the countries agreed to a draft proposal calling for sharing and reporting information on piracy, stopping ships that are involved in piracy and prosecuting individuals involved in piracy.

    "The solution to the Somali piracy problem is inland, not at sea. It is the restoration of law and order in that country," he said. "The U.N. should help Somalia restore law and order."

    The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, said the discussion on the draft U.N. resolution is ongoing.

    "We're talking to the French and others to put forward something on the piracy, specifically off the coast of Somalia, but the importance of the overall issue will be recognized," Khalilzad said.

    Ripert said the legal details will take time to work out because pursuing pirate vessels could mean going into the territorial waters of a country "so you have to pre-negotiate the consent of the state."

    "We want also to address other zones in the world, but then the situations and the realities are different," he said, so the initial resolution will probably just focus on Somalia
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...qzwhQD90715D80


  14. #39
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    Pirates for chad

    Keeping Operational Security in mind what kind of security did the ship carrying all the kit for the chad mission get???? By my thinkin there must have been 400 rifles and support weapons and APCs / MRV / CRV 81mm's all on the one boat plus the kit for the dutch marine commando's.... Would be some haul if the ship was 'taken'..
    just curious how such a massive haul of arms is protected????
    Any ideas??
    remember OPERATIONAL SECURITY so dont go mad into details people!!

  15. #40
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    Somali pirates hijack four ships in 48 hours

    Somali pirates hijack four ships in 48 hours
    ROB CRILLY in Nairobi

    SOMALIA: SOMALI pirates have hijacked four ships in 48 hours as they launched a new wave of plunder on the high seas.

    So far this year 27 ships have been attacked in the Gulf of Aden or along the southern coast of Somalia.

    Noel Choong of the International Maritime Bureau said an international naval force set up to deter pirates was following three vessels seized on Thursday.

    "All the three ships are still moving and appear to be heading toward Somali territorial water. A warship has been dispatched to monitor and track the vessels," he said.

    The waters around Somalia are among the most dangerous in the world for commercial shipping.

    With no central government or effective law enforcement since 1991, the country has been riven by years of clan violence and has been divided into a series of fiefdoms controlled by warlords.

    An interim government, established with international support in 2004, has failed to assert its authority and continues to battle Islamist insurgents.

    The result is a country where thugs and gangsters control almost every aspect of life - including the waters.

    A pirate network is believed to stretch from Europe to Dubai, identifying targets and feeding intelligence to the gangs based along Somalia's long coastline.

    The past week has seen an unprecedented wave of attacks.

    An Iranian bulk carrier with 29 crew and a Japanese-operated chemical tanker with 19 crew were seized within an hour of each other in the Gulf of Aden on Thursday. Brigands struck again later in the day, snatching a German-operated cargo ship with nine crew flying the flag of Antigua and Barbuda.

    Two days earlier armed men hijacked a Malaysian palm oil tanker. In all, seven vessels are currently being held.

    Andrew Mwangura, who monitors piracy for the Seafarers' Assistance Programme, based in the Kenyan port of Mombasa, said it was the first time three ships had been seized in a day.

    "There have been a lot of gunmen joining the pirate gangs. They are making good business and it is an attractive choice for many young men at the moment," he said.

    Earlier this year the United Nations Security Council gave permission to warships to chase hijacked vessels into Somalia's territorial waters.

    A six-nation coalition, including Britain and the US, has been escorting ships carrying aid and monitoring the seas.

    But Mr Mwangura said they were still failing to tackle the problem. He added that flags of convenience also hampered an effective response.

    "They may have a flag of one country, be owned by a second and have a crew from a third, which adds a lot of complications to trying to free the vessels," he said.

    © 2008 The Irish Times

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...416998630.html

  16. #41
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Recently, the RN were advised not to arrest pirates, as doing so may create a bigger problem.

    Arresting them means you have to return them to the nearest mainland where they can be prosecuted. In Somalia, the only Law that prevails successfully is Sharia law, with its associated punishments, considered Barbaric by the west(whatever about its deterrent effect). The Pirates would then be entitled to seek asylum from this supposed barbaric practice, and would then become the responsibility of the RN, who would be obliged to return them to a British Port where their asylum could be processed.

    Commentators have said better advice would have been to "shoot first, ask questions later" but this wouldn't be Politically correct.

  17. #42
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    Politicians should not be involved, if they want to stick their oar in then I suggest they get their arses down to the armed forces recruiters office.

    The areas of the World with piracy problems should be divided up and patrolled by the Navy for set periods of time, six month deployments would work best. It should be up to the individual CO what action to take and if he decides to go down the rope/yardarm route then so be it, there should be no political comeback.

    The RN was instrumental in combating the slave trade two centuries ago, no-one back then said

    "hey, don't be interfering with those trading ships or their cargoes, besides the people onboard may claim political asylum"

    Bringing back keelhauling could be another effective punishment, if the pirate survives give him a slap on the back and then make him swim home.

    Anyone disagree with me? Then give me your solution. I'm listening.

  18. #43
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I'd vote for you rooster. Heavy handedness is the only way to deal with piracy.

  19. #44
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    PS I wasn't suggesting that the above action be carried out by just the RN, the patrol areas would be handed over between different Navies in the same way that its done with STANAVFORLANT and STANAVFORMED, anyway, thats my two pence worth.

  20. #45
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I understand, like many international flashpoints, major Naval Powers are unwilling(or unable, because they are already stretched worldwide) to provide ships to take part in anti Piracy Patrols.
    At the moment, it's mostly food aid that is being taken by Somali Pirates. But you can be sure that as soon as the cargo becomes more valuable, warships will suddenly become available.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I understand, like many international flashpoints, major Naval Powers are unwilling(or unable, because they are already stretched worldwide) to provide ships to take part in anti Piracy Patrols.
    At the moment, it's mostly food aid that is being taken by Somali Pirates. But you can be sure that as soon as the cargo becomes more valuable, warships will suddenly become available.
    It really is ridiculous in this day and age that something cannot be done about this, I know the old arguement that navies are "over-stretched, under manned, etc" but really there are loads of hulls all over the World not being deployed. This is an international problem and it needs an international solution.
    OK, only food aid is being taken but thats the stranglehold that these criminals have over their shore based communities. Its only a matter of time like you quite rightly point out that they manage to take something a lot more valuable, either in terms of property or human life.
    As usual with most things its because of the missing political will that we have this problem, we have the tools and the training if the politicians would just let us get on with it the problem would be solved within probably two years.

  22. #47
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    the situation is even a bit more complex, Probably some of the local politicians of the Somali Transitional Federal Govt are also in on this, Although thye do not control in any way the entire country. Lots of small self declared states. They have a vast coastline, longest in Africa, lots of small ports like Eyl, Hobiyo, Kismayo under no official control, local warlords and population see it as a source of income,, could be stopped but who really gives a toss about Somalia.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    the situation is even a bit more complex, Probably some of the local politicians of the Somali Transitional Federal Govt are also in on this, Although thye do not control in any way the entire country. Lots of small self declared states. They have a vast coastline, longest in Africa, lots of small ports like Eyl, Hobiyo, Kismayo under no official control, local warlords and population see it as a source of income,, could be stopped but who really gives a toss about Somalia.

    Wait until they find oil there.....

    Somalia is another African country that was mucked about for years by a variety of colonial European powers, and some of them are still involved.

  24. #49
    Closed Account ZULU's Avatar
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    DO what my fathers passenger liners did back in the 60's 70's. Train the crew to fire deck guns, Bofors etc, and have them ready for use if the company warrants it

  25. #50
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    "And if you follow me through from the casino you can see our swimming pool, 57 mm Bofor and the tennis court. That gentle, soothing thump you can hear is the Rheinmetalls being test fired. On the lower deck you can see one of our six fine restaurants...."
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