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Thread: Modern Pirates

  1. #1126
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    Read the thread title.
    Thanks Fred, I know what the thread is about. The fact is that the Indo etc are trying to link ARW storming ships of the coast to future anti piracy operations. It's nothing to do with anti piracy, nothing more than standard MCT training.
    The fact that you think that this info has nothing to do with the debate taking place seems more to do with the fact that you don't want the ARW skills in MCT extolled in anyway.

  2. #1127
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    OK, an outsider question and perhaps opsec - but is damage control better on the CPV's than the OPV's?

    Or is it a much of a muchness if either of them gets thumped by an RPG?

  3. #1128
    CQMS fiannoglach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintstone View Post
    Congratulations, have another pint.
    Won't need it. It'll be a dry trip

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  5. #1129
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    Would it not make economic sense, to send a small autonomous element like the ARW, used to living in austere conditions and who would have a small logistical footprint? As opposed to a NS boat and full complement of sea hags?

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  7. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    OK, an outsider question and perhaps opsec - but is damage control better on the CPV's than the OPV's?

    Or is it a much of a muchness if either of them gets thumped by an RPG?
    A very good question.

  8. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintstone View Post
    The difference is two knots which when you compare range of 2500 v 6000 miles makes it a no contest. However it will not be us who decides which ship would be best suited.

    As regards what is a warship might I refer you to the internationally accepted definition which is contained in article 29 of UNCLOS ( I copied and pasted it below to save you looking
    Article 29 Definition of warships
    For the purposes of this Convention, "warship" means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or itsequivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline.

    I stand corrected. The difference is actually 7 knots . Max 30 vs Max 23??

    Definition of a warship my arse. By those criteria you could launch a currach into the Indian Ocean and have a warship.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 22nd September 2012 at 05:40.

  9. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannoglach View Post
    Won't need it. It'll be a dry trip
    You must be bored if you're looking forward to this one. A complete waste of the ARWs capabilities an training IMHO. They are being use as a pawn by the COS to counter a move by FOCNS. He should have more respect for his finest asset.

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  11. #1133
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    I would say that the CPVs air con was changed years ago, they also would be limited to areas relatively close to shore.

    This is an EU mission so we have to fund the full cost! Patrol days have already been cut!

    According to the Minister, AVPDs have been requested.

    With regard to the building of the vessels. I think it may be classifications or something.

  12. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I would say that the CPVs air con was changed years ago, they also would be limited to areas relatively close to shore. Wow, does different aircon limit operational range?

    This is an EU mission so we have to fund the full cost! Patrol days have already been cut! International piracy is increasing the cost of shipping, driving worldwide inflation up. Its in our best interests in the long term
    According to the Minister, AVPDs have been requested. That's all he's been told about by the Army in DFHQ

    With regard to the building of the vessels. I think it may be classifications or something.If you don't know the answer, why bother commenting? The answer above was already given
    Somtimes dev i wonder why you bother.

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  14. #1135
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    So do I goldie!

    The CPVs were designed for use in Hong Kong, a lot of the original equipment would have been replaced in the last 20+ years.

    Their displacement and endurance limits their use, at a time when pirates are using mother ships to get out further into the Indian Ocean.

    You are quite correct about the cost of shipping but the short term problem is the Governments problem, think bunkering costs, crew rotation costs, naval pay, patrol duty allowance, peace support allowance and armed peace support allowance.

    Everything I have ever read about the OPVs, LPVs and HPV says they are build to civilian standards not military.

  15. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannoglach View Post
    Would it not make economic sense, to send a small autonomous element like the ARW, used to living in austere conditions and who would have a small logistical footprint? As opposed to a NS boat and full complement of sea hags?



    Have a bit of respect bud!.
    Dont see anybody here being derogatory in realtion to Army personel.....

    By the way its a SHIP not a BOAT.....


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  17. #1137
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    JJ, are you really confused about what constitutes a warship? The RN says not below 2000T? I guess all those old frigate/corvette/destroyer/sloop crews might beg to differ. I can see it now; "on which we serve-part II". Noel Coward comes out to address the crew, "sorry, lads, you've been had. You were never on a warship, just a boat. No seagoing pay, no fillies hanging out of you in harbour, thinking you were tough fightin'men, etc,etc"

    regards
    GttC

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  19. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    The RN says not below 2000T?
    Where do they say that?

  20. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmigs View Post
    Where do they say that?
    Same place where it says a garda can only arrest you if he's wearing his hat, and nigerians get free buggys from the social.

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  22. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post

    Everything I have ever read about the OPVs, LPVs and HPV says they are build to civilian standards not military.
    What have you read?

  23. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post

    By the way its a SHIP not a BOAT.....

    Ah yeah..The boat thing gets them every time.

    On a more serious note, could we not just send one of our super stealth submarines?
    Oh wait......

  24. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannoglach View Post
    Ah yeah..The boat thing gets them every time.

    On a more serious note, could we not just send one of our super stealth submarines?
    Oh wait......

    We arent the organisation being re-org'd


    Army finding it hard to justify themselves, standby for more cuts to the brigades in 2013!!!!

    The P60s would be well able for the anti-piracy job. If the COS or DCOS was a Naval officer it could be a reality!

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  26. #1143
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    We arent the organisation being re-org'd


    Army finding it hard to justify themselves, standby for more cuts to the brigades in 2013!!!!

    The P60s would be well able for the anti-piracy job. If the COS or DCOS was a Naval officer it could be a reality!

    Yeah, and if the Naval Service (A real navy has an admiral) could do their job we wouln't have to...

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  28. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannoglach View Post
    Yeah, and if the Naval Service (A real navy has an admiral) could do their job we wouln't have to...
    possibly is meant in jest but cop on and grow up, not the place for it IMHO

  29. #1145
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    The reason the Navy doesn't have an admiral is because the army won't let him become one.

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  31. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    What have you read?
    It is very well documented that Deirdre was based on a trawler design

    The 3 other OPVs were improved versions of Deirdre based on the same design.

    STX were involved in the design of the LPVs:

    STX Canada Marine's philosophy is to design the ship to relevant commercial standards, fit a weapons system as appropriate, as well as simplifying the ship design, material procurement and construction phases.
    To quote the STX website.

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  33. #1147
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    That's one "source" dev.

    Have you ever heard of NEVESBU?

  34. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole View Post
    Thanks Fred, I know what the thread is about. The fact is that the Indo etc are trying to link ARW storming ships of the coast to future anti piracy operations. It's nothing to do with anti piracy, nothing more than standard MCT training.
    The fact that you think that this info has nothing to do with the debate taking place seems more to do with the fact that you don't want the ARW skills in MCT extolled in anyway.
    The Indo article had no basis in reality, regardless of where it was getting its info. The job that we are discussing is for armed guards on WFP ships to protect them against pirate attack.

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  36. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    OK, an outsider question and perhaps opsec - but is damage control better on the CPV's than the OPV's?

    Or is it a much of a muchness if either of them gets thumped by an RPG?
    Ask anyone who has walked through them on an open day. Much of a muchness.

    Naval ships haven't tried to keep ordnance out for almost a century. It is about limiting the damage that it does when it gets in.

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  38. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannoglach View Post
    Would it not make economic sense, to send a small autonomous element like the ARW, used to living in austere conditions and who would have a small logistical footprint? As opposed to a NS boat and full complement of sea hags?
    I will treat your question as a serious one despite the insulting manner in which it is framed.
    Ireland was asked for a ship and as an addition an AVPD. An AVPD will only deliver on one of the thre tasks of Op ATALANTA, while a ship can deliver on all three. Far from having a small logistical footprint, if the AVPD is not based on a ship it will have to be based ashore with the requirement for considerable logs support.

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