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  • Originally posted by pmtts View Post
    India has detained a bulk carrier with a crew of 21 Ukrainian seafarers and two Irish security guards after finding four self-loading rifles and live cartridges, said to be for defence against piracy. The vessel has been named as the 2004-built, 55,137 dwt Genco Provence and the arrest took place in Morbi on December 5, according to a Lloyd’s List Intelligence correspondent. It is not clear whether the ship is still being held, or which security company provided the guards.
    why detain them just because they were armed?
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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    • Somebody's looking for a bung.
      regards
      gttC

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      • Gobshites,
        They either went into port or were boarded with tuppence worth of weapons on board. They should have been at the bottom of Davy Jones locker.

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        • Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
          why detain them just because they were armed?
          Sounds like they were in port. Many countries do not permit arms on merchant vessels in their ports regardless of their intended use.

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          • Originally posted by Flintstone View Post
            I don't agree. An OPV could fill a role in the EU mission. Unless you are a spokesman for EUNAVFOR you might quote a link for your categorical ruling out of ships without helicopters.
            No, EUNAVFOR haven't offered me a job yet, but I recall reading an interview with the then commander of the EU force - a Royal Navy Commodore, can't recall his name, it was a year or two back - who when asked what resources he required from contributing nations, replied that he wanted ships with helicopters and boats.

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            • Originally posted by Flintstone View Post
              Sounds like they were in port. Many countries do not permit arms on merchant vessels in their ports regardless of their intended use.
              does that mean British ships would not be authorised at those ports given the fact that armed guards are now authorised on-board?
              RGJ

              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

              The Rifles

              Comment


              • Yes. The routine arming of merchant vessels is something that needs to pay attention to local laws also. While a ship is in port, you must obey all laws of that state, including their firearms laws.
                The weapons should have been declared prior to arrival, and on the face of it, there may be more to this story.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • Would arms as part of carge be seized if declared on manifest.

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                  • Originally posted by danno View Post
                    Would arms as part of carge be seized if declared on manifest.
                    Depends who the client is.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                      does that mean British ships would not be authorised at those ports given the fact that armed guards are now authorised on-board?
                      The usual routine is that the guards are embarked at sea prior to transiting the High Risk Area and then disembarked when through. The Security Guard Companies operate from countries where they have authorised bases.

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                      • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                        No, EUNAVFOR haven't offered me a job yet, but I recall reading an interview with the then commander of the EU force - a Royal Navy Commodore, can't recall his name, it was a year or two back - who when asked what resources he required from contributing nations, replied that he wanted ships with helicopters and boats.
                        My info is more recent. The Head of the European Defence Agency stated in early Dec of this year that EUNAVFOR is short of ships. I do not think that they will be as picky as your RN Commodore if they were offered an OPV sans helo.

                        Our navy is very good at operating boats in difficult conditions. At the very least Irish ships could escort the WFP ships many of which are carrying aid from Ireland. This would free up an expensive frigate with its helo for work elsewhere.

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                        • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                          Yes. The routine arming of merchant vessels is something that needs to pay attention to local laws also. While a ship is in port, you must obey all laws of that state, including their firearms laws.
                          The weapons should have been declared prior to arrival, and on the face of it, there may be more to this story.
                          Thinking further on this,was there not a company sized terror assault on Bombay about 2 years ago,the perps had infilled in small groups on merchant vessels and most likely any small arms finds on merchant vessels would trigger a big reaction in any Indian port.

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                          • Originally posted by Flintstone View Post
                            My info is more recent. The Head of the European Defence Agency stated in early Dec of this year that EUNAVFOR is short of ships. I do not think that they will be as picky as your RN Commodore if they were offered an OPV sans helo.

                            Our navy is very good at operating boats in difficult conditions. At the very least Irish ships could escort the WFP ships many of which are carrying aid from Ireland. This would free up an expensive frigate with its helo for work elsewhere.
                            I heard the Irish NS were asked, but the DoD declined. It is a big undertaking, requiring extra crew for changeovers etc. It is not practical to rotate an entire ship in and out of area. You post a ship there, and leave it there. Interestingly the Peacocks are ideally suited to this climate, being designed for work in the tropics, but would need to have a homeport to accomodate crew for prolonged periods.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              I heard the Irish NS were asked, but the DoD declined. It is a big undertaking, requiring extra crew for changeovers etc. It is not practical to rotate an entire ship in and out of area. You post a ship there, and leave it there. Interestingly the Peacocks are ideally suited to this climate, being designed for work in the tropics, but would need to have a homeport to accomodate crew for prolonged periods.
                              Would the Peacocks still be fitted with the equipment for the tropics?

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                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Would the Peacocks still be fitted with the equipment for the tropics?
                                It seems to me that the new OPVs would be the best option. Speed, armament, boat launching davits, larger boats and comfort for crew. Crews could be rotated if it was decided to leave the ship on a long deployment.
                                If DoD refused a request for Irish naval assistance it is a disgrace. This is an island 98% of whose imports come by sea. 2o%of global trade passes through the Gulf of Aden. How much of it is oil destined for our cars and central heating. 80 million USD were paid to pirates in 2010. It is estimated that global piracy cost international shipping 10 billion USD in 2010. The continued attacks on shipping will soon have a negative effect on our economy. Surely we could spare one ship. The minister should think outside the box and overrule the department.

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