Naval Service Recruitment.

[Goldie fish]

The Naval service is currently running a short recruitment programme to recruit up to 40 seamen.
Contact the Manpower office for details of Walk in interviews that will be held in Cork Limerick Galway and Dublin.

Tel: 021 4864721 or email navyjobs@defenceforces.ie

[techman1]

please note that the Navy are interviewing in the following locations for a recruit class for early Sept.

Cork 18 & 19 June 0930hrs (Naval Base); Limerick 25 June 1200hrs Naval Service Reserve House Sarsfield Bks; Galway 26 June 0930hrs Renmore Bks; Dublin 27 June 0930hrs Naval Service Reserve house Cathal Brugha Bks. We will accept walk in interviews!!!!!

Please actively spread the word to any of your friends, neighbours,relatives etc. (Word of mouth !)

Interested personnel can contact the MPO at 4721, AMPO 4731 and recruiting NCO 4732. Alternatively people can contact these locations by emailing navyjobs@defenceforces.ie or navalservicerecruitment@defenceforces.ie . Information on careers in the Defence Forces including Naval Service is available on www.military.ie

[mutter nutter]

So did they finish this intake?, I never got called back, even to tell me no thanks

[DeV]

NS is currently recruiting

[ancientmariner]

NS is currently recruiting

In the last 12 months more than a dozen Junior Officers have left the Naval Service. That is almost enough watchkeepers for 4 ships. I don't recall this level of loss in past times. Five senior officers also departed in the same timescale. What's the problem?

[TangoSierra]

Economy picking up? Pay rates for DF personnel will never match those for commercial / private shipping.
Coupled this the reduction in the traditional incentives of pension etc...

It's no unique to the naval service. The wider DF is hemorrhaging corporate knowledge at a rate of knots both officer and nco

[DeV]

I would imagine pay versus civvy land (they also are now trained to civvy standards not sure if that was always the case).

They also have more work to do as the strength is way below establishment for a lot of ranks in the NS, which I would assume means more time at sea during shore rotations.

[DeV]

Also in the early 2000's, they had to call up the FLR

[hptmurphy]

In the last 12 months more than a dozen Junior Officers have left the Naval Service. That is almost enough watchkeepers for 4 ships. I don't recall this level of loss in past times. Five senior officers also departed in the same timescale. What's the problem?

Money and conditions in comparrison to equivalent civilian employment. The improvements in training offered by NMCI mean that people coming through the NS with certain courses are far more employable than they were in the past.

Also its not unique to the DF, younger people are far more transient in careers than their forbearers, my own daughter as an example gave 4 years to do a nursing degree, worked at it for 2 years and went back to do a postgrad in Midwifery, no qualms.

Again in the case of the 5 senior officers, the path to rank beyond commander is capped and those bound for higher can be picked out before they reach it, why stick around in a job that has no future promotion prospects when you can get out with a pension and get into middle management in civvy street.

Take a look of some of the qualifications of people on something like Linkedin and see the proportion of Naval Officers who have moved on.

I would offer than more officers have passed through the NS in the last 20 years than did in the preceding 40 years.

[DeV]

If we look at the strength figures from the Dail Questions thread (31 Mar 15, bear in mind that there will have been retirements and promotions since):

Lt Cmdr - 4% under est - 2 vacancies
Lt - 24% under est - 19 vacancies
S/Lt - 24% under est - 10 vacancies

And there are only 10 cadets in training!

For other ranks:
SPO - 40% under est - 6 vacancies
PO - 9% under est - 20 vacancies
L/S - 21% under est - 37 vacancies
A/S - they are 38 over est (this could be recruits in training)

[ancientmariner]

If we look at the strength figures from the Dail Questions thread (31 Mar 15, bear in mind that there will have been retirements and promotions since):

Lt Cmdr - 4% under est - 2 vacancies
Lt - 24% under est - 19 vacancies
S/Lt - 24% under est - 10 vacancies

And there are only 10 cadets in training!

For other ranks:
SPO - 40% under est - 6 vacancies
PO - 9% under est - 20 vacancies
L/S - 21% under est - 37 vacancies
A/S - they are 38 over est (this could be recruits in training)

These figures highlight in the first place the controlling hand of the Department of Finance. The non NCO pool should always be the equivalent of two or three classes over it's establishment to create a resource for Leading hand selection and above. Now that the days of open recruiting are gone, even enlisting a recruit has become an expensive undertaking and overall a drag on maintaining the Navy at operational levels. Political policies are always damaging to the services.

[DeV]

The DF shouldn't be over establishment in any rank and if it is shouldn't be allowed to recruit because they would mean that resources aren't being managed correctly.

It's my understanding that Dept of Finance sign off it go longer required for recruitment to take place since CS4 was changed.

IMHO, these figures are the result of:
- lack of recruitment & promotion for a number of years
- pay cuts, changes to T&C, etc that make the NS less attractive as a career
- lack of sufficient personnel meaning rotations being effected
- long lead time to apply personnel to qualify


Just a point it is the job of the DF to serve the Government and the State (not the other way around)

[hptmurphy]

Are they understrenght because of lack of qualified suitable candidtaes to fill the vacancies or because the department won't pay to fill the vacanacies?

The German theory was that every man should be able to do the job of the man two ranks above him, so filling vacancies based on educational or skills base from within is the problem.

IMHO the NS is back to the old days where it is top heavy with officer ranks and establishments need to be adjusted to rectify this. The DF seems to have a policy of population positions based on rank rather than on requirement.

ie why does it have to be a Commandants as a coy commader where a captain can do the job adequately. Having a certian rank holding position means there is a set number of junior officer vacancies that must be filled. Reduce every appointment by one rank grade , thus reducing the amount required to fill certain positions below that grade.

[ancientmariner]

The DF shouldn't be over establishment in any rank and if it is shouldn't be allowed to recruit because they would mean that resources aren't being managed correctly.

It's my understanding that Dept of Finance sign off it go longer required for recruitment to take place since CS4 was changed.

IMHO, these figures are the result of:
- lack of recruitment & promotion for a number of years
- pay cuts, changes to T&C, etc that make the NS less attractive as a career
- lack of sufficient personnel meaning rotations being effected
- long lead time to apply personnel to qualify


Just a point it is the job of the DF to serve the Government and the State (not the other way around)

The agreement that brought about the reduction of the Defence Forces to two Brigades and deletion of numerous HQ's was part of an overall mandatory reduction in Public Service numbers. It had no strategic element other than to demand that the Defence Force continue to provide all services as before. The Naval Service had to comply with this " Agreement " although ships do not have flexible or deletable crewing levels. Who serves who is a question that should not be asked of our Navy. However, diminishing its capability by the financial screw, and expecting the same level of service is just political whitewash. The Navy will always attempt to be Good to Go, but it is the DOD's responsibility to meet duty of care .

[DeV]

Duty of care is everyone responsibility

Do you seriously think that the NS didn't get input into the ECF or CS4?

[ancientmariner]

Duty of care is everyone responsibility

Do you seriously think that the NS didn't get input into the ECF or CS4?

That is true, about duty of care, the greater responsibility lies with the provider of your assets whether crew, spare parts, etc. As regards CS4, the outline from The Croke Park Agreement actioned changes would be required to CS4. There was no equivocation, just a bit of decimation, and provide your own executioner. It was an expedient exercise based on cost and numbers.

[TangoSierra]

Do you seriously think that the NS didn't get input into the ECF or CS4?

No they did not.

[na grohmití]

In the last 12 months more than a dozen Junior Officers have left the Naval Service. That is almost enough watchkeepers for 4 ships. I don't recall this level of loss in past times. Five senior officers also departed in the same timescale. What's the problem?

Money. Better to be had in civvy street. I hear of a few junior officers who went to a german supermarket chain to start on 60k + Company car.
Morale seems poor amongst junior officers too, with a number of poor officers holding senior positions, blocking others from doing anything positive or beneficial to the service, and trying to stomp on those who try to rise above.
It comes down to how much you love your job, over how nice you would like your quality of life to be.

[ancientmariner]

That is true, about duty of care, the greater responsibility lies with the provider of your assets whether crew, spare parts, etc. As regards CS4, the outline from The Croke Park Agreement actioned changes would be required to CS4. There was no equivocation, just a bit of decimation, and provide your own executioner. It was an expedient exercise based on cost and numbers.

Just browsing through my copy of the Report on Remuneration and Conditions of Service in the Defence Forces 31st July 1990. At that time the Establishment of the Defence Forces was 17978 all ranks with a strength of 13233 or 74% of Establishment. 18 years later we are operating a reduced Force of 9700 approx. but in the Navy's case with less than 1000 personnel, we are operating almost twice as many ships with twice as many reliefs, drydockings, leaves, and additional specialist training. we are on our way to a grinding halt or an operability factor of not more than 50%.