DF deployment to Chad

[Groundhog]

ADR were deployed with ONUC in the 60s.

They were deployed with UNIFIL also. As infantrymen.

[Docman]

Even as a deterrent a battery or two of EL-70 along with a few RBS70 would have a massive impact.

As exhaustively discussed here and elsewhere, the EL-70s are a white elephant and would be a minimal deterrant.

The RBS-70 would offer some protection.

The major problem in Chad is Sudanese backed Rebels. The Chad army are French backed, equipped and trained and have so far been well able to defeat the Rebel forces in conbat.

The big problem is that Chadian Rebels have taken to targetting civilians over a large area and the Chadian armed forces are too small to control everywhere.

But the Rebels have had major difficulties in combat against any organised army. The French have dominated the rebels in areas where they have deployed with a minimum of troops. The French Air Force has maintained Air Supremacy and devastated the rebels.

For Sudan to actually intervene would be a major mistake. They won't. Instead they will continue to back the rebels. Air Power is not a problem once the French remain in the area.

[Groundhog]

... Air Power is not a problem once the French remain in the area.

Should air power become a problem then the UN will ask a country with better AD assets than Ireland to deploy some of them there. Most likely as you say, the French.

[Barry]

On the point of the Scorpions and the 105's surely with the sheer scale of the rebel attack on the AU base heavy fire support is a major issue. It's an area where we have very little assets and consideration must be given to the deployment of what we have in this area.

The Brits and Americans seem perfecly happy to use their 105s in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Groundhog]

The Irish will be deploying about half a battalion. Not a brigade. So we won't be expected to provide artillery, tanks, AD and marines.

[California Tanker]

Even as a deterrent a battery or two of EL-70 along with a few RBS70 would have a massive impact.

Will that leave anything in the country?

I can see the Bofors having a place: AA guns have traditionally proven quite effective against infantry. (I'm thinking of the AU compound raid)

The Scorpions, however, would be unlikely. The terrain, as far as I know, is such that wheels are quite suitable, and the Scorps aren't really any more heavily armoured than the MOWAGs, whilst increasing the overall logistical requirements for a mission. Unless there's a reason for the 76mm gun which cannot be dealt with by a 30mm or 90mm (What's the 76mm supply like, these days?), or there is terrain which is unsuitable for wheels, it doesn't make sense to send them off.

I have a feeling that the area which might be within the Irish sector of responsibility would be large enough that a battery of 105mms at a central location simply wouldn't have the reach to be handy when needed. They'd be better off with 81mm mortars tagging along on patrol.

NTM

[Barry]

I have a feeling that the area which might be within the Irish sector of responsibility would be large enough that a battery of 105mms at a central location simply wouldn't have the reach to be handy when needed. They'd be better off with 81mm mortars tagging along on patrol.

One of the two types of 105 (the type I'd expect them to take, if they were bringing any) has a longer range than the one used by you US types. And if the threat level calls for it, there's nothing stopping both 105s and 81s being brought (except possibly any manpower ceilings imposed on the mission, which would scupper things completely). One Troop would be appropriate for the size of the force being sent.

[paul]

also if they have any air lift capability over there,they could move the 105's around quickly if the situation dedicated it.

[fiannoglach]

Tanks, Giraffes, 105's. Can somebody switch off the fantasy filter??

AFAIK the Giraffe has a range of 40 miles
Mig23 attack speed is 840 MPH, which is 14 miles a minute.
2.85 minutes to leggit as far away from the Giraffe as you can as there's probably an anti-radar missile on it's way!!!!

[California Tanker]

also if they have any air lift capability over there,they could move the 105's around quickly if the situation dedicated it.

Relative term. If you need artillery support, you probably need it now, not in half an hour.

NTM

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
The Antonovs routinely operate from higher than 20,000 feet.Opening the ramp door to drop a 500-pounder on a pallet, for the few seconds it takes to launch it, is not a problem.I think the Sudanese AF have considered the threat of Manpads and light AA and fly high enough to avoid same. Mig 23s don't attack at 840 mph.Nor does anything else.If you said 440, I'd have agreed with you.I defy any pilot to identify a target at that speed, especially at the tree-top height they have ben delivering their gun/rocket attacks.Perhaps a few Roland SAMs from the French to tilt the odds a little or a few flag-waving flights from Mirage F1s,to open Sudanese Govt eyes a little.....also, bear in mind that the rebels are no saints either.They're not shy about killing their own fellow Sudanese, either.
regards
GttC

[Te Kaha]

Elite Unit for peace mission role in Chad

October 11 2007

SPECIALLY trained members of the Defence Forces' Elite Unit, the Army Ranger Wing, will be the first Irish peacekeeping troops on the ground in Chad.
The Rangers will be deployed in Chad next month to provide protection for army engineers tasked with building a headquarters for the Irish deployment as part of the peace mission in Chad and the Central African Republic.
It is expected that up to 350 Irish soldiers will be sent to the region.
A reconnaissance team, including Irish personnel, is being sent to Chad today. It will determine what role the Irish contingent should play in the mission and will report back to the chief of staff of the Defence Forces, Lieut Gen Dermot Earley, who will then make recommendations to Defence Minister Willie O'Dea.
Lieut Gen Earley said yesterday that it was likely the Irish would play a significant part in the mission and uppermost in his mind was the safety of any troops that might be deployed there in the coming weeks and months.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...d-1139575.html

Is it really such a good idea that the Irish Defence Force "do media" before they deploy the ARW? Peacekeeping troops fine - but pre-announcing members of the ARW or any special forces unit for that matter is a bit unorthodox.

[mutter nutter]

Is it really such a good idea that the Irish Defence Force "do media" before they deploy the ARW? Peacekeeping troops fine - but pre-announcing members of the ARW or any special forces unit for that matter is a bit unorthodox.

welcome to Ireland...most people think all the DF do is peacekeeping and that the wing are just super duper peacekeepers, their jobs is to hand out food and toys and not get in trouble, doing things like the NZSAS did in Afghanistan?!?...shock horror no, shure we don't do all that nasty imperialist warry stuff:wink:

[Eddie Dillon]

Is it really such a good idea that the Irish Defence Force "do media" before they deploy the ARW? Peacekeeping troops fine - but pre-announcing members of the ARW or any special forces unit for that matter is a bit unorthodox.

I agree but it was done before UNMIL and INTERFET and any deployment of Irish troops numbering more than 8 or some number like that, has to be approved by the Dail so it's gonna be public news either way

[The Thing]

Really? Have you heard of the Israeli Air Force? They operated with no problem in South Lebanon while Irish troops were there. The decision to deploy troops is not in the remit of the DF. It's made at government level. Apart from that nobody in the DF is going to say it's too dangerous to send our lads to some place. It's an army for Christ sake. It's suposed to be dangerous.

The decision to deploy troops rests with the minister for defence who takes the advice from the chief of staff, the government mearly announce the plan, the Army put it in place, and yes I think if there was a risk or intelligence that our troops were to be targeted by Sudanese Aircraft then our government would not deploy us. I am well aware of the capabilities of the Israeli airforce. The Army may be a dangerous occupation when deployed overseas but the defence forces would not put troops in a direct threat situation if it could be at all avoided.


That's a laugh, Brian Lenihan was yukking it up in the Gulf with the PLO while they were murdering Irish troops in Lebanon in 1980. You'll be lucky if the majority of Irish people even know there are Irish troops in the region when they are feeding the Starvin' Marvins..

A little thing called media coverage would ensure that the deployment would be known to the Irish population, as it was for every other high profile mission that Irish troops have been involved in.