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View Poll Results: What is the future for Naval Aircraft In Ireland?

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  • Continue Naval Air Ops with a new Air Corps heli

    19 15.45%
  • Continue Naval Air Ops with New Naval services operated Helis

    66 53.66%
  • Continue with Helideck only on certain ships

    17 13.82%
  • Give up on the whole idea..the CASA does the job fine!

    21 17.07%
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  1. #101
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I would love to see the section on the Danish MoD site where it says "Irish Naval Officers recently arrived,chequebook in hand,eager to take one of our massive assault ships for a test drive".


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  2. #102
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    Irish naval helicopters

    Will Ireland replace their naval helicopters in the near future? New Zealand has introduced the kayman seasprite helicopter (5 in service) in the last few years. Is Ireland planning to do similar?

  3. #103
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Naval air ops Have not been carried out from the only Helideck equipped vessel,Eithne,since about 2001. Both aircraft capable of deck landings are grounded,awaiting disposal.
    The Main difficulty (apart from unsuitable aircraft) was the fact that the Aircraft were operated by the Irish Air Corps. Before any plans are made to replace the grounded Dauphins, it must be clarified who will fly them,and how often. The Naval service seem pretty intent that if they are to continue operating Helis from their ships,then it will be done on their terms,with their pilots.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  4. #104
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    naval air ops

    Gidday from nz,read aout yournaval air ops the nz navy is pretty happy with its new helos.Have just heard they ordered new mu90 torpedoes for them as well as frigates.

  5. #105
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Was watching on Tv earlier,in an interview with President Musharraf of Pakistan,It showed the Pakistani Navy on Patrol,they seem to be quite happy to use Allouette 3 types from the Helidecks of their Type 21s. Was it ever considered,or tried here?
    If nothing else it would keep the skills associated with Naval air ops alive.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  6. #106
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    Uav

    One way of providing ship-borne helicopters, without involving the Air Corps....?

    http://www.pentagon.mil/transformati...-4935L-002.jpg

  7. #107
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    Navy Alouette III...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Was watching on Tv earlier,in an interview with President Musharraf of Pakistan,It showed the Pakistani Navy on Patrol,they seem to be quite happy to use Allouette 3 types from the Helidecks of their Type 21s. Was it ever considered,or tried here?
    If nothing else it would keep the skills associated with Naval air ops alive.
    I know it's too late now, but for historical interest....

    http://belmilac.wetpaint.com/page/Su...B+Alouette+III

    http://www.mil.be/navycomp/galllist/...0&IDS=3&IDT=93
    Last edited by thebig C; 21st March 2007 at 20:04.

  8. #108
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carrington View Post
    One way of providing ship-borne helicopters, without involving the Air Corps....?
    Yes indeed, and especially useful for the blue/green ship I think.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  9. #109
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    naval helicopters

    If the Naval Service were ever to get its own helicopters, what type should be acquired? There's an interesting survey of naval helicopters in this article:

    http://www.armada.ch/06-2/article-full.cfm

    The realistic options for the NS seem to be the Eurocopter Fennec or Panther, or the Agusta Westland Lynx. The Fennec is by far the smaller, lighter, cheaper option, probably best suited to Irish OPVs, assuming of course that the new vessels have heli-decks.

    The Naval Service seems to have burnt its fingers with the Eithne/Dauphin experience, and isn't that interested in ship-borne helicopters. (?) If the NS were to look for heli-decks and/or helicopters, would it set off a turf war with the Air Corps? But since the new vessels will be in operation for 30 years, it might not be wise to close off that option by omitting helidecks, especially with the development of shipborne UAVs.

  10. #110
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    But since the new vessels will be in operation for 30 years, it might not be wise to close off that option by omitting helidecks, especially with the development of shipborne UAVs
    The new ships will have to be capable of UAV ops and probably underwater vehicle ops as well
    Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

  11. #111
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Compare the waters the Pakistanis operate in with the North Atlantic..no contest...Panther is a no go as it is limited to the same sea states as the dauphin was....

    Pitch and roll of ships being the contributory factor..and will the state really pay for helos to carry out FP duties that a computer system can now do.Even the SAR role has moved on.

    I think the concept of being able to operate a helo is worthy of consideration but basing a dedicated helo abord ship especially under the control of an indepent body to the NS is a non runner.

    Back to the three to one scenario..to have one operational helo you need to have three one in maintaince and one in reserve..plus the reserve aspects...the budgetary constraints would be far better spent on other naval items rather than a miniture gucci air wing...for the cost of three helos.spares, crews etc ..you could have an extra ship.
    Time for another break I think......

  12. #112
    Recruit Piranha's Avatar
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    Would it not be wise to think about having a small (gucci) naval air wing with a MRV coming online (hopefully). The RNZN are going to operating the NH90 (2 or 3 i think) from their MRV and its difficult to find a MRV type vessel operating without helo support. Its my opinion that an MRV without a helo would have reduced capability. eg: MRV will have a hospital, sick bay whatever you what to call it so a helo for medivac would come in handy! Also in transporting equipment to shore. So to have a completely capable MRV a helo would be a must as i see it.

  13. #113
    Private 2* aaron's Avatar
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    I agree with the idea that the Irish Navy should follow the RNZN example. In that way they can maintain operational command of the aircraft without the cost of maintaining a whole maintaince facility. Ireland obviously does not have the funding to maintain a fully seperate fleet air arm, and its navy will only suffer with the lack of aircraft. It is hard to imagine a modern European navy without some form of air asset.

    The Aer Corps can also benifit by offering career diversity for there staff. I have spoken to RNZAF maintence staff and they have all enjoyed there time at sea.

  14. #114
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Well ours didn't during the limited time spent at sea..and that is first hand information.I remeber the looks on the AC guys faces when they came aboard..something akin to being told you had two mothers in law....
    Time for another break I think......

  15. #115
    Private 2* aaron's Avatar
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    Is there any chance that the powers to be might try and retain some of older helicopters till this problem is addressed, or is there any talk of trying to get the new helicopters to carry out some landings on ships. Also have the Allouette ever been used on Irish ships

  16. #116
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    Hi there
    The Alouettes were never deck-landed by the Air Corps.Other countries have used them as shipboard equipment, including the Argentine navy, on the illfated Belgrano.I dont know why they didn't think to use them to complement the Dauphins.
    regards
    GttC

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Hi there
    The Alouettes were never deck-landed by the Air Corps.Other countries have used them as shipboard equipment, including the Argentine navy, on the illfated Belgrano.I dont know why they didn't think to use them to complement the Dauphins.
    regards
    GttC
    I was going to suggest that it was because the Dauphin's were meant to replace the Allouettes. But was this really ever on the cards in the 80's/90's?

  18. #118
    squigs
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    hi

    could the AB139/EC135's land on eithne? or be modified to do so? likelyhood of this happening?

  19. #119
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The AB139 is heavier than the 5 tonnes Eithnes deck is designed to take. The EC135 could land, theoretically on a stationary vessel..


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  20. #120
    Recruit Piranha's Avatar
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    How heavy is the AB139 and is it likely we will see it operating from the MRV?

  21. #121
    squigs
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    would a EC135 be ideal for sea operations if one was made available?
    Its got two engines alright,
    Is its stability suitable for sea operations?
    Is its radar akin(as powerful) the Casa?(doubt it).
    Apart from the obvious benefits of having it on board what else could it be modified to do?
    E.g Gun Ship??

  22. #122
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The specifics of the AB139 are available not far away, in the Air Corps section.

    The EC135 has not yet been rated for naval operations. Its radar is a weather radar, not a search radar. What it would be capable of would just as easily be carried out by a UAV.

    Also, Skid type underciarrage makes aircraft handling on deck more difficult.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  23. #123
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    I guess we'll get a good indication if Naval air ops will ever happen again, when we see what way they go with the B/G ship, it either will have a helipad or not...just my civi opinion of course.
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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  24. #124
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It will have a helipad. Its role would dictate it. Thats a given. Even if the helideck is used as a parking space for mowags or has tie down points for TEUs, it will have a deck capable of taking a helicopter of significant size.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  25. #125
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    It will have a helipad. Its role would dictate it. Thats a given. Even if the helideck is used as a parking space for mowags or has tie down points for TEUs, it will have a deck capable of taking a helicopter of significant size.
    That would be a good start, aren't the AW-139's pretty much maritime ready as is?, Malaysia are going to operate their's on ships....I can't see too much of a problem operating our's off of a decent sized ship., or am I missing something?
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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