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  • Originally posted by carrington View Post
    No, and I wouldn't call 20 foot waves 'choppy' either.

    My point is that most navies seem to be able to operate helicopters - and they're usually much smaller than a Merlin - from ships in rough weather. Why can't we?

    Because the air corps don't want to, basically. You do realise that nobody else in the DF is allowed fly helis except the Air Corps?
    From 1986 we had the opprotunity to build up a skill base of Naval Heli ops. However the Air Corps of the Time were at best uncooperative in its operation. Through no fault of their own. If they wanted to work on ships they would have joined the Navy. Follow from that the selection of an unsuitable compromise aircraft for the task. Jack of all trades, master of none, and a Government of the time that liked to keep the Shiney New dauphins for VIP transport, when the crews should have been working up for Night Flying, SAR and Naval Co-Op.

    Until these issues are addressed, it is pointless trying to continue Naval Heli Ops. Besides, the only heli deck equipped ship in the fleet, no longer has most of its deck handling equipment, and has lost most of the skill base. Many are found here, almost all are EX Navy.

    Its a very steep learning curve, trying to land on a twenty by forty foot deck that is moving away from you, while at the same time pitching from port to starboard, and rising and falling at the same time.

    I remember a pilot referred to it as being like trying to shove wet spagetti up a wildcats ass.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • Thanks for that reply - confirms the impression I had from other bits and pieces.

      I accept fully the difficulty of landing a helicopter on a heaving, pitching ship's stern. I have great respect for those pilots who have mastered that skill. But despite the difficulties, many navies seem to be able to routinely operate helicopters from small ships, using a combination of various pieces of equipment, operational practices and extensive training. For example, this is a Danish Navy Lynx landing on the Swedish corvette Visby, a 73m vessel with a beam of 10m, displacing just 600 tonnes, considerably smaller than current Irish OPVs.



      And this is the Maltese Navy's modified Diciotti-class 54m, 450 tonne patrol boat - smaller than Orla and Ciara - which can land and refuel light to medium helicopters during daytime in calm to moderate sea conditions.



      The usefulness of helicopters is such that the problems experienced by the Naval Service should not deter them from trying again, especially since the lessons of the past are well known. The Naval Service's new OPVs will probably be similar to the New Zealand ships, which in turn were based on the Niamh/Róisín design, but with helicopter decks and hangars added.



      Given that these ships will be still be in service in 2040, it might be unwise to exclude this option.

      Comment


      • Nice photos..look at the sea state..its like glass.

        As for recovering or launching of Rhibs ,geminis etc...em I think you should reconsider what the book says and take alook some time or ask some of those who work in them.......I think you find they don't do what it says on the tin!
        Last edited by hptmurphy; 14 May 2007, 22:36.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
          Because the air corps don't want to, basically... , and a Government of the time that liked to keep the Shiney New dauphins for VIP transport, when the crews should have been working up for Night Flying, SAR and Naval Co-Op.
          Fair point GF, but since when did the AC or any part of the DF become a democracy?..because thet dont want too...?
          Jesus H Christ!
          I mean no insult to any serving or past member of either service (AC/NS) folks, but somebody(in DFHQ/DoD/the 'don/the island has got to get their finger out of their arse on this!
          as Carrington has very rightly pointed out -if others can do it why can't we?:confused: :confused:
          If the service is either unable or unwilling, for political reasons to stir up support for operations in the extended EEZ then ... why bother at all?
          New FOC- mickey mouse!!

          Comment


          • Its one thing to actually do it..another thing to pay lipservice.When the NS get a suitably sized ship..and the AC a suitable aircraft, only then can the whole thing move forward.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • Sobering video

              Meh.

              Comment


              • Came in pretty hot there.

                RIP 2 on board.

                An Australian army inquiry has released this dramatic footage of a Black Hawk crash. Pilot Mark Bingley and Trooper Joshua Porter died on a training mission when the helicopter crashed onto the deck of HMAS Kanimbla and plunged into the sea near Fiji.

                Sky News delivers breaking news, headlines and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide.
                Last edited by Goldie fish; 18 June 2007, 23:49.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • I gues the air corps pilots did not want to have spend Nights away on duty. Just imagine if they had night flying capability they might have to stay on base or gofd forbid on a ship and be on standby in case they were needed.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aidan View Post
                    ,

                    Obviously AB139s could be (in a situation where the state was in a position to deploy some abroad) carried on deck, and then flown to an onshore operating base once the ship was at anchor in a sheltered location.
                    Apparently on other Sites some guys have talked to IAC Techhies and "its not a big deal to fit the Harpoon deck system to the AW139's"..

                    Comment


                    • The Harpoon fitting is not an issue, however you need longer travel in the landing gear to absorb the impact of 2000 tonnes of steel coming up to meet you as you attempt to land.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        The Harpoon fitting is not an issue, however you need longer travel in the landing gear to absorb the impact of 2000 tonnes of steel coming up to meet you as you attempt to land.

                        Won't the Japanese Coast Guard be using their AW139s on ship-based operations?

                        Comment


                        • I didn't realise the Japanese had AW139s, and their helideck equipped ships already operate Pumas.
                          Your question seems to have a string on it. No doubt you already know the answer yourself? If so please tell us, using small images.
                          Last edited by Goldie fish; 19 July 2007, 23:29.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment



                          • Japanese CG CGI, and yes apperently it will be ship based, at least part time
                            Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                            Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              The Harpoon fitting is not an issue, however you need longer travel in the landing gear to absorb the impact of 2000 tonnes of steel coming up to meet you as you attempt to land.
                              AW139 landing gear is spec'd for deck landings.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rosser
                                Naval Helo ops are never going to happen unless you force pilots to be stationed in the Naval Base as this will not happen because the lads will go sick before they are moved from dublin.

                                We barely have the personnel to run what we have let alone a naval air wing, we need more Seamen, Mechs and ERA's not fecking Pilots and on that matter we are multitasked out downhere.

                                A pilot is a pilot, keeping a Helo airborne calls for the independant control of three different systems and a moving ship dont help, so that multitasking enough for him.
                                Will there be a reduction in the requirement for Seamen, Mechs and ERAs when the P20s are replaced?

                                Comment

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