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Naval air ops no more?

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  • #46
    The operation of helis from Eithne was made redundant by the purchase of the CASA's. Rather than trying to return to seaborne heli ops, the DF would be much better off getting at least one more CASA.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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    • #47
      Can I ask a question - with regard to ordering aircraft, lets say for instance this LUH/UH helicopter order - how much does the input of the Air Corps matter? Is the final decision with the Air Corps, or the minister for defence and civil servants?

      The Air Corps have historically been woefully equipped, both in numbers and types... why the Fougas were ever bought I will never understand. I heard from one source that it was because their Light Stike role would be useful if the so-called "troubles" ever got worse - what a load of bull. In that case 6 Broncos would've been infinitely more useful.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by FMolloy
        The operation of helis from Eithne was made redundant by the purchase of the CASA's. Rather than trying to return to seaborne heli ops, the DF would be much better off getting at least one more CASA.
        For Maritime patrolling I agree, the CASA option makes sense. However shipborne Helos have abilities that the CASA cannot match. Evacuating personnel from another vessel for example. A CASA might be able to pin-point a stricken vessel, but thats about all it can do.

        Not that its strictly relevant in the current situation, but a suitably equiped shipborne Helo also gives ASW protection and potentially increased strike range.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by pym
          Can I ask a question - with regard to ordering aircraft, lets say for instance this LUH/UH helicopter order - how much does the input of the Air Corps matter? Is the final decision with the Air Corps, or the minister for defence and civil servants?
          3 groups will each make their recommendation. The Air Corps itself, the ARW, and Bricken hospital(air ambulance) will each decide which heli best meets their requirements. The pilots I`ve been talking to say that the Air Corps and the ARW favour the Blackhawk and they dont know or care what Bricken thinks. Unfortunatly, these groups are only giving their opinions and it will be up to Willie to decide.
          Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

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          • #50
            Oh god the walters are at it again...what ASW capability...what submarine threat.....

            the last ships with anti submarine capabilities were the Corvettes...the last live firing of depth charges was in the 60s and the last depth charges were disposed of in 1977

            the primary role of our Naval Service is fishery protection........

            Strike range ...for what ? beligerant trawler taken out with an exocet?????

            Yes the CASAs perform the role admirably ...except when they are being used as ministerial transports...as were the Kingairs........buy two more Casas.......
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • #51
              Originally posted by dbpackers
              However shipborne Helos have abilities that the CASA cannot match. Evacuating personnel from another vessel for example.
              I can see where you're coming from, but that's what SAR helis are for.
              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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              • #52
                Very few Naval helis are used to evacuate personnel from other vessels. Most are only used as observation helis,or in the ASW role.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #53
                  as far as Iknow it is only dedicated coastguard vessels use their helos in the SAR role and these usually have secodary tasking in obersvation role.

                  The US coastguard actually sent a detachment to the eithne in early 1987 to see how we operated the dauphin from such a small platform >remember that at the time Eithne was the smallest Patrol Vessel in the world to be able to operate and hanger its owm helo. landimg decks were commonplace but ships of the class being able to hanger their own helos were unheard of!
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #54
                    Most of the USCG Cutters have telescopic Hangars,which take up part of the landing deck when extended.

                    BTW,the basin is being dredged at the moment to make room for larger Naval Vessels...


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #55
                      BTW,the basin is being dredged at the moment to make room for larger Naval Vessels...
                      most likely larger visiting ones
                      Do you know goldie.. are the dauphins going to be actually stood down, mothballed or sold off, have we definitely seen the last of them?
                      Last edited by morpheus; 1 November 2004, 21:27.
                      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                      • #56
                        The Dauphins are history & not before time.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #57
                          There is nothing to rule out the chance of the LUH being available for Naval ops,should that decision be made.
                          Is there even two Dauphins still fully operational? I know it was espected that to modernise the avionics(an urgent undertaking) would cost in excess of €1.5m Per aircraft.

                          Visiting Naval vessels do not enter the basin. HMCS Algonquin went to the Oil Wharf when they were collecting the pom pom.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • #58
                            I think past experience would rule out the LUH being made available to the NS. I don't see the point in a return to flight ops from Eithne, the usefulness of having one heli on one vessel has to be questioned.

                            Perhaps it would be better if future vessels had a flight deck & the ability to refuel other helis.
                            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                            • #59
                              My thought would be to keep the crews familiar with Naval heli ops until a long term decision was made on its future..


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                              • #60
                                Possible roles for naval helis:

                                SAR (not all emergencies can be reached from shore bases)
                                Fishery / Maritime Surveillance (as extention of vessels sensors)
                                Vertical Replenishment
                                Arms / Drug Interdiction
                                Anti-submarine warfare
                                Anti-Surface vessel warfare
                                Training
                                Landing army troops (eg exercises in off Donegal, Gormanston, Fort Davis)

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