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Asgard 2 Sinking in Bay of Biscay

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  • #61
    Another report in the Oirish Mail on sunday about how the DoD is stalling on deciding to salvage Asgard II in an attempt to save €2m.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #62
      Latest from the Dail:
      275. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if a decision as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation on the Asgard II will be made this week as promised in his reply to a parliamentary question on 26 November 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47485/08]

      Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): It has been decided to carry out a further underwater survey of Asgard II in order to establish the current condition of the vessel. Due to weather and other factors it is unlikely that this survey will take place before the end of the year. When the results of the survey are available, a final decision will be taken as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • #63
        keep pausing for time willie the next few storms in the bay and asgard will be in small bits so that wii be the end of it his reply will be IT is with regret that asgard is now beyond salvage and the government is now forming a team of experts to locate a new vsl etc etc etc

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by golden rivet View Post
          keep pausing for time willie the next few storms in the bay and asgard will be in small bits so that wii be the end of it his reply will be IT is with regret that asgard is now beyond salvage and the government is now forming a team of experts to locate a new vsl etc etc etc

          its sad but maybe the answer is go back get the bell and figurehead , stick this on display to our proud maritime history .
          saves the government taking an interest in maritime matters other than maybe galway hookers .

          Comment


          • #65
            Irish Times 30/12/08:

            JASON MICHAEL

            SALVAGE EXPERTS are to carry out a second underwater survey on the Asgard II next month to ascertain if it can be raised from the seabed.

            Cameras will again be lowered to the seabed 22km (14 miles) off the French coast in the Bay of Biscay to assess the condition of the vessel and whether it can be saved.

            Officials had intended to inspect the Asgard II before Christmas but were delayed by bad weather. It has now been lying in 83m of water for four months.

            "It was hoped to have it done by now, but with the time of year and the weather it is always difficult. The main reason for the delay is the weather was atrocious," a spokesman for the Department of Defence said.

            "We are now looking at mid-January. A decision on whether we can go ahead with the raising of the Asgard II will only be made on completion of the survey. Hopefully a salvage operation could be done within 10 days. Salvors could have the thing up in a day or two."

            Some 25 crew and trainees were rescued by French lifeboats in the early hours of September 11th, when the brigantine started taking water some 22km west of Belle-Ile, off the northwest coast of France. The vessel had been travelling to La Rochelle, France, for a maritime festival and routine maintenance.

            The department has asked Irish-based company Remote Presence to send down cameras for half a day to reassess the boat's condition and make a decision on raising the vessel.

            The boat is insured by Allianz for €3.8 million, according to the Department of Defence, while salvage could cost about €2 million.

            Experts warned the biggest threat to the boat could be from fishing nets getting caught in its masts; at their highest they sit about 25m below the surface.

            Video footage of the boat shows it is largely intact, sitting upright on the seabed with a significant hole in a plank in the hull. Investigators believe the boat sank after it struck a semi-submerged metal object.

            Earlier this month, Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea said a second underwater survey would be conducted before a final decision is taken on salvage.

            "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

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            • #66


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • #67


                A minister in the current government stalling on making an important decision? What a surprise.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #68
                  From Afloat website

                  Afloat magazine readers voted overwhelmingly for the Asgard to be lifted in an online poll. Disappointingly, three months on, she remains at the bottom of the sea. Now in February 2009, Afloat have opened an online petition to provide a meaningful voice for everyone who wants to save the ship and Irish sail training before it's too late....

                  Dear Minister O'Dea, "Over 10,000 have learned the ropes on her deck, many of them from across the religious divide on our island. She flew the tricolour in hundreds of ports around the world, providing positive and cost effective international exposure for this nation. And she served as a tangible link to our recent and turbulent past. On an island nation that so often turns its back on the sea, Asgard II – built by Irish hands, inspired by Irish history, recognised around the globe – came to symbolise all that was possible for our maritime industry. Recognising the unique role played by this brigantine, we, the undersigned, call on the Irish government to move immediately to salvage her and begin work on her restoration. We also call on the Irish government to commit to the future of the sail training programme, in the event that Asgard II cannot now be salvaged, by setting out a timetable for the commissioning of a replacement vessel".
                  To sign the petition, go to this page: http://www.afloat.ie/news/raise-the-...petition-here/
                  Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                  Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                  Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                  Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Word on the grapevine is that a decision will be made this week (possibly tomorrow) NOT to raise the Asgard*.


                    *the grapevine has been wrong before so don't take this as a statement of fact!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      "savings will be made in defence"..

                      The unkindest cut of all.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        it will be like getting turf off the bog in wet weather IMPOSSIBLE... history now id say

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          **** the Asgard..If It takes my pay levy to put it back inservice **** off. I've had my days at sea..now I just want my fair pay.

                          let the yachties have their own STY and get some of their own muppets to pay for it.
                          If I can get shafted why shouldn't some one else.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            hpt, my understanding is that the insurance was going to pay for it to be raised?


                            You've had your days at sea... Don't be such a me feiner. And it's not just yachties that go on it (and you well know that).
                            Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                            Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                            Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                            Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Murph, you are becoming a right crankypants. I was one of the "yachties" that sailed on Asgard.
                              She is the exact opposite of what you describe. In fact, I'd say even you could learn a lot from a week aboard a STY.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Meanwhile, in the Dail earlier.

                                100. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence when a decision will be made as to whether to proceed with efforts to salvage the Asgard II; if his attention has been drawn to the concerns that the vessel may be further damaged by rough seas and fishing activity in the area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3654/09]

                                101. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if the second survey he commissioned on the possibility of raising the Asgard II has been concluded; if so, his intentions in regard to the vessel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3726/09]

                                Deputy Willie O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 100 and 101 together.

                                As I indicated to the House previously, the board of Coiste an Asgard decided in early December last to arrange a second underwater survey of Asgard II. Due to factors outside its control, it was not possible to arrange that survey until last week. However, due to adverse weather conditions, the survey could not be completed successfully, apart from taking a sonar picture which appears to show that the vessel is still in an upright position.

                                A meeting of the board of Coiste an Asgard is taking place this afternoon at which the question of the salvage of Asgard II will be further considered. Arising from that meeting, I expect to get a recommendation from the board within the next day or so as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation. I will then make a decision on the matter immediately


                                Deputy Brian O’Shea: I am glad to hear a decision is imminent. However, all the Minister knows at this stage, despite it being indicated in early December that there would be a second inspection of the vessel, is that the vessel is in an upright position. What is his advice on the current state of the vessel, given that it is located in very turbulent waters? Bearing in mind the fact that more damage can be done by gill netters and a maritime notice has been posted by the French authorities which indicates the vessel is there, does the Minister have any evidence gill netters are operating in the area?What information does the Minister have on the condition of the vessel? Will the decision he will make be a negative one in terms of salvage?


                                Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy O’Shea is correct. We did promise last December that there would be a second inspection. However, due to weather conditions, it was not possible to organise it until last week and even when it was organised the weather was so bad the normal type of inspection done in the first instance could not be done. Due to the appalling conditions, all that could be done was to take a sonar photograph.

                                I have no information that the condition of Asgard II has deteriorated to any significant degree due to it still being down there. I am aware of the situation regarding gill netters and the fact that a notice was posted by the French authorities. There is nothing to indicate any further damage has taken place. As the Deputy knows, the initial survey showed the vessel was in an upright position and this was confirmed by the sonar photograph taken last week.

                                The board is meeting today and will make recommendations to me having considered the matter thoroughly. I am not bound by its recommendation but I will take it into account seriously when making a final decision. That will happen later this week.


                                Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: In view of the fact that the Asgard II is a maritime icon, a national flagship and an ambassador for this country, surely there should have been more urgency on the salvaging of the ship. It is now five months since it sank and we have had two surveys.

                                The Minister must have been able to act and make up his mind on whether it was salvageable or not after the first survey. How many surveys does he need? In the meantime, we have lost a number of weather windows when a salvage operation could have been carried out.

                                Does the Minister intend to salvage the Asgard II? Is the intention to draw down the insurance which, I understand, is approximately €3.8 million and leave the Asgard II at the bottom of the sea? This is important. The Minister is responsible for it and can answer these questions. People are wondering, because of the timeline involved, if the intention is to abandon the ship entirely and draw down the insurance.


                                Deputy Willie O’Dea: I have not made a final decision on that yet. The fact is that the Asgard is a very popular institution and it is true that it has been a great ambassador for Ireland. The other side of the story, however, is that the ship does not have any historic significance per se as it is only 30 years old. It is called the Asgard but does not have any connection with the original vessel. We must apply hard logic in making these decisions; one cannot make a decision based on emotion. There are a number of difficulties with the salvage operation: first, one must take into account the cost involved; second, one must also take into account what damage, if any, might be caused to the ship during the salvage operation; and, third, if the ship is salvaged in a fairly undamaged state and it can be repaired, one must carefully examine the cost. We must therefore take all those factors into account.

                                I did not recommend that a second survey take place. The first survey took place to ascertain the condition of the ship in so far as it could be ascertained. That survey confirmed that the ship was upright and did not appear to have been substantially damaged. The board of the Asgard determined that there should be a second survey, I presume to check if any deterioration had occurred in the meantime. It took a while to organise that. It could not be organised until last week due to poor weather conditions. Divers can only examine the site if weather conditions are favourable. Even when they dived to the vessel they found they could not undertake a proper survey, but just took a sonar photograph. That is in the past, however, and the board of the Asgard is meeting this afternoon and will make a recommendation to me on what it thinks should be done. I will of course take that recommendation into account.


                                Deputy Brian O’Shea: I take on board much of what the Minister has said. It is a question of where we will go from here. Even if the vessel is raised, its reconstruction will take a long period, so what will the Minister do to provide a temporary replacement training vessel? If it is decided not to salvage the Asgard, what will the Minister do about providing a replacement vessel? I very much hope that the Asgard can be salvaged and I look forward to the decisions that are about to be taken in that regard.

                                Is there any further information on the cause of this accident? Does the Minister expect that the survey or the eventual raising of the vessel will shed a great deal more light on that?


                                Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy O’Shea has posed three questions. First, no matter what happens we will need a replacement if we are to have a sail training season from May to September-October. On my instructions, the board of the Asgard is actively pursuing the question of a replacement. It has examined a number of possible replacement vessels with a view to leasing one for the season at least. I have asked the board to report back to me at the end of the month on that matter. Therefore it is determined that the sailing season will take place from May to September-October and a replacement vessel will have been identified within a short space of time.

                                Second, Deputy O’Shea asked what will happen if we decide not to salvage the Asgard. If we do not salvage it, we will have the €3.8 million insurance money which we will use towards the cost of a replacement vessel. That is our intention if we do not salvage the Asgard.

                                Third, the Deputy will be aware that the relevant authority is investigating the cause of the accident. It is a statutory authority and we do not have any access, but we have the right to ask them what stage they are at. That is the only right we have and as late as a few days ago they told us that they had not yet completed their investigation. That is all I know about that. Of course the Deputy is right in that if the vessel is salvaged, I imagine it will certainly throw light on what happened. It will certainly show the full extent of the damage.




                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                                Comment

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