Munster Match

[Duffer]

with pratice hopefully we may see such event soon, but seeing as the sixth aw139 is just about to be delivered ( or just delivered) it might take some time. small steps at first Still it was a better sight than not, a flypast by several air corp jets with green white and orange smoke trails would be nice but aint going to happen anytime soon. you do the best with what you have and overall for the first time the air corp have done such a job (to the best of my knowledge) My point was marketing the DF to the public at such an event shows that the DF are part of society, the Brits Yanks and French do it well, Even the Russians, Chinese have military in public sight in a PR role, Why hide the DF Such events only raise public knowledge After the DF are the only armed force operating in a military role in the State, DF are the States military arm, not some bunch of terrorists who tried to ursurp the State

[turbocalves]

with pratice hopefully we may see such event soon, but seeing as the sixth aw139 is just about to be delivered ( or just delivered) it might take some time. small steps at first Still it was a better sight than not, a flypast by several air corp jets with green white and orange smoke trails would be nice but aint going to happen anytime soon. you do the best with what you have and overall for the first time the air corp have done such a job (to the best of my knowledge) My point was marketing the DF to the public at such an event shows that the DF are part of society, the Brits Yanks and French do it well, Even the Russians, Chinese have military in public sight in a PR role, Why hide the DF Such events only raise public knowledge After the DF are the only armed force operating in a military role in the State, DF are the States military arm, not some bunch of terrorists who tried to ursurp the State

i agree with the idea of PR for the DF, but one Heli looks rediculous....

and fast ropin two bods is embarrassing they could have had a section of so, that would have looked better, with two lads they should parachuetd in....

[California Tanker]

and fast ropin two bods is embarrassing they could have had a section of so, that would have looked better, with two lads they should parachuetd in....

I have to say, I was kindof surprised at that. What was the purpose of the second lad?

They did seem to be a little slow getting the ropes out, as well. More practise required. Any more stadia opening soon? Landsdowne?

NTM

[Eddie Dillon]

I dont agree that it was a waste of time or money. For one reason it was the offical opening of a fantastic stadium which deserves to be recognised. Secondly Limerick could do with a morale boost of any sort. Thirdly, The DF must maket their abilities to the general public to get rid of a public perception of out of date praticies. in a restricted economy as we have today the DF will have to fight for funding with a whole range of services so it does not harm to market itself when it can. in a previous post i mentionedthe british army sabre project where they raise funding from the private sector by running management programmes and charge large amounts of cash.

Dont forget that helicopter belongs to the public. i am not suggesting for one minute that the air corp drop in on every event in the country but once or twice a year, it does no harm to show the public what they are paying for. After all the Navy done a super job of marketing their role in the recent drug seizure and the appointment of the first female captain. the army markets their role in Chad well. Since the air corp lost the sar role the general public does not see what they do. The Silver Swallows are now extinct Why pay for helicopters that do something that nobody sees. i realise fully that certain operational aspects will never enter the public domain and rightly so but now and again showing that they are part of a greater community ie society as a whole.

several people (none pilots or DF) commented in work that the flying and fast roping display looked professional. So DF join the marketing era and sell yourselves. it may pay dividends in the long run

Again, a good post. Agree with everything you said. Fair play to all involved

[Eddie Dillon]

i agree with the idea of PR for the DF, but one Heli looks rediculous....

and fast ropin two bods is embarrassing they could have had a section of so, that would have looked better, with two lads they should parachuetd in....

This was not a tactical exercise involving a drop of 40 personnel. It was simply a dramatic delivery of a ball to a stadium. I'm sure that the tactical aspects to the whole thing were by far secondary to the PR value to the public. To the entire stadium it looked good and professional and I've no doubt that it could have been done much faster if needed. The heli wouldnt have approached so slow for one thing.

As regards the second lad, im sure there was a reason, clearing up the ropes off the pitch while the first guy presented the ball seems the most obvious one.

Also as regards the cost, how much does a flypast of PC9s at Bray or Salthill cost? How much does slights for heli drills for the RDF or anyone else cost? These are operating costs, PR is quite necessary and as long as there isnt overkill there should be no issue.

[Bagger63]

what a load of cock......

1 minute to get two lads on the ground, i saw the RAF put 40 T/A lads on the ground in the same time,

whats the point in flying in and out in a couple of seconds the crowd wouldn't of know what happen. it gave the public a chance to see the heli. so eh go join the T/A. good luck.

[Bagger63]

Also as regards the cost, how much does a flypast of PC9s at Bray or Salthill cost? How much does flights for heli drills for the RDF or anyone else cost? These are operating costs, PR is quite necessary and as long as there isn't overkill there should be no issue.

Totally agree. its all part of the job.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all,
It is a waste of public funds because, despite the spectacle of it, it's not new or innovative or different,as they have done it before and it uses up funds diverted from another part of the Don's budget, which would be more usefully employed.I guarantee from experience that someone has lost a course or a piece of kit or spares because of several thousand wasted on showy shit, that does not reflect the real utility of the DF.They got more useful PR from the airlift of the crashed Cherokee in Wicklow the other week, than this grandstanding, wasteful, expensive crap.If they want to do PR stuff, then let them create a PR budget, instead of hacking at training or provision of courses.
regards

I'd love to see the Argentinian Air Force open their game with a rugby ball delivered by Exocet
GttC

[mutter nutter]

Hi all,
It is a waste of public funds because, despite the spectacle of it, it's not new or innovative or different,as they have done it before and it uses up funds diverted from another part of the Don's budget, which would be more usefully employed.I guarantee from experience that someone has lost a course or a piece of kit or spares because of several thousand wasted on showy shit, that does not reflect the real utility of the DF.They got more useful PR from the airlift of the crashed Cherokee in Wicklow the other week, than this grandstanding, wasteful, expensive crap.If they want to do PR stuff, then let them create a PR budget, instead of hacking at training or provision of courses.
regards

I'd love to see the Argentinian Air Force open their game with a rugby ball delivered by Exocet
GttC

Jesus, you must be a ****ing hoot at parties.....

[sofa]

It was a excellent PR opportunity for the D.F, it looked very impressive and look at the size of the viewing public at the time, and all it cost was flight and fuel, money spent well for such a huge amount of viewers,

[mcdid]

Hi all. First time posting, long time observer. In regards to the speed of delivery trust me, those guys can exit an aircraft exceptionally fast. Not getting into any operational aspects but i have seen practice fast roping exercises where the seated capacity of the 139 has exited the aircraft well within your "minute", sub 30 seconds no less. But that's neither here nor there. In regards to the 139 and the speed it entered and deployed its ropes...it was not an operational or even training deployment. There was no need for a fast approach or deployment. The guys had all the time in the world and thus used it appropriately, safety first, and gave the civilians, who don't have the same biased views we do, a real treat!
True, these capabilities on a large scale are only recently being explored and practiced but as was said its small steps first and realistically the ARW are the only unit going to be using this method anyway!
The reason that there where only two of the guys (and this is from the horses mouth) is that they just could not spare anymore bodies. Those two guys literally ran straight through the tunnel after landing and presenting the ball and got straight into a jeep and roared off "on a job". We were lucky to be rendered their services and fair play to them.
Im sure to the connesouers(spell check) out there it was not to every bodies liking as it is impossible as we all know to please everyone all the time, but as the exercise was intended as a mark of respect and aimed at a largely (and innocently) ignorant civilian audience i think that in that capacity it succeeded and even surpassed its PR value. Indeed all i could hear being mentioned at the time was comments like, "Jaysus boy, fair play to em", or "did ya see that lad, bloody brits have arrived, cause as sure as hell they aint ours". Point being there was no bad in the display and nothing but good can come from it. Well done to all involved and i look forward to posting regularly with you guys.
Cheers
Did

[Docman]

I dont agree that it was a waste of time or money. For one reason it was the offical opening of a fantastic stadium which deserves to be recognised. Secondly Limerick could do with a morale boost of any sort. Thirdly, The DF must maket their abilities to the general public to get rid of a public perception of out of date praticies. in a restricted economy as we have today the DF will have to fight for funding with a whole range of services so it does not harm to market itself when it can.

Duffer, In Limerick, Wee Willie is know for his generosity with the DF, volunteering them for every and any event that will generate good PR for Him and get him re-elected. He treats the DF as his own personal re-election tool, gladly putting on shows and giving away land with absolutely no return to the DF. It has demoralised the units in Limerick as they are becoming no more than Willies Personal Cheerleading squad.

This is the first time I have actually seen them get on National TV doing one of Willies pet projects. It will generate good PR for the army, but that was not the intention - it was designed to generate good PR for Willie.

[Lordinajamjar]

Nice touch.

The defense forces should do stuff like this more often to increase public awareness.

I wonder how many fans left for home that night with some new found pride after seeing a couple of their own soldiers doing some cool stuff in their home town after dropping in from the sky aboard a modern military flying machine. How many youngsters did it fire up to want to join the military?

The average citizen doesn't know how small the army is or how little equipment is available. To them it just comes down to a good feel factor and something above the mundane to talk about. Next time though they might be expecting a grander show. Public opinion can definitely help open the coffers a little wider when future defense budgets are handed out.

It was definitely a good move.

[Duffer]

I dont know enough to comment on the use of the DF by the Minister in LImerick for political ends but the match last week was not just a Limerick issue, it was Munster and the whole country. I dont condone the use of state assets for political ends in any shape or form.

The general idea that i was trying to get across is that the DF should use such events that had such a large and diverse audience both in the ground and on TV etc to say "look what we can do on your behalf" Some people on this board have commented that there was not enough soliders on the ground. It was a display of military skill not force. If the Air Corp can drop two soliders carrying a ball then then can drop twenty carrying weapons if need be or drop a small team onto the roof of building that is being held by terrorists etc.

The RAF have flown aircraft against the Top Gear drivers in "races" Nobody would suggest that a car can beat a Harrier in a race but it is entertaining, raises the profile of the military, and gives the military a chance to shows its aquired skills to a wide audience.

I know that RDF/PDF recruitment is stalled but if it were not, then the local RDF unit could have had a recruitment stand at the match last week. After the Air Corp display It would have been good marketing. I am sure that the IRFU would have had no objection. It might show some local youths that there is an intresting way to spend time if not a whole career.

The Navy have twined their ships with cities/hospitals etc and the crew open the ships sometimes when they visit those cities. That is good PR. That was the thrust of my post. Good PR can pay dividends in the long run. The cost of the fuel for the flight last Saturday was money weel spent.

[easyrider]

I'm sure the lads in Chad were chuffed to see an Air Corps helicopter in action, delivering a rugby ball.