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  1. #6976
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    The time required for the vetting process varies anywhere from from days to months, he ye completed medicals yet?
    We did the fitness, interviews and gave all the documents for vetting on the 6th of July, no word on medical yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Considerable work has been done to get this process down for this recruit intake.

    DShane how many turned up for the fitness tests when you did it ?
    Around 50 people got the email inviting them down to Finner, 15 replied to that email confirming their attendance, out of that 15 only five showed up and two of them failed the test.

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  3. #6977
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    Not great reading now when you consider the recruitment campaigns are starting shortly. The RDF needs good news stories not these.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...es-943401.html

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  5. #6978
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Not great reading now when you consider the recruitment campaigns are starting shortly. The RDF needs good news stories not these.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...es-943401.html
    Forgot to well done to the source for having the ba*** to speak to the press.

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  7. #6979
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    One of our core values is moral courage, not always easy to speak up, better for young lads to know truth before they join, and they will always want to join.

  8. #6980
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    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    One of our core values is moral courage, not always easy to speak up, better for young lads to know truth before they join, and they will always want to join.
    Agreed 100%, tell the truth and shame the devil.
    If not the boats the navy uses (I've been in the army diving group uses). What type of boats does the NSR require and what cost? Have you looked into to it?

  9. #6981
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    Talks of 250,000 per boat for each unit, nothing decided yet.

  10. #6982
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    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    Talks of 250,000 per boat for each unit, nothing decided yet.
    €1m for 4 replacement boats.

  11. #6983
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    It’s amazing how we have let our expectations fall to where we are delighted with 6 or 7 recruits when we would get 20 at least every Sept before the reorg.

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  13. #6984
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Forgot to well done to the source for having the ba*** to speak to the press.
    Apart from the fact its actually a crime under military law.....yeah.. real good guys......Now we have every partimer expressing an opinion in the national press.....
    Time for another break I think......

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  15. #6985
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    It's not the first and wont be the last, but how many have been disciplined both PDF &RDF.
    In my experience when an member of the RDF is to be disciplined, most just go non effective. Social media is a perfect example or this forum, we are all posting under false names because we are expressing our opinions, stories and some fact openly about the DF which we normally are not allowed. I bet htmurphy if I had the time and will I would find a comment you have made which breaks military law but no action can be taken because we don't know who you are but you do and if you are a current member of the DF you would also have broken military law.

  16. #6986
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    It’s amazing how we have let our expectations fall to where we are delighted with 6 or 7 recruits when we would get 20 at least every Sept before the reorg.
    The new process and delays are not the only cause IMHO. It is also brand awareness (for want of a better term) and generational differences

  17. #6987
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The new process and delays are not the only cause IMHO. It is also brand awareness (for want of a better term) and generational differences
    Generational differences is actually a huge one. There are more options for young people these days. They are also increasingly fickle.

    Back in the day, they would turn up to the local FCA/Slua location not really knowing what it was about aside from word of mouth. They'd get hooked.

    Nowadays the RDF needs to be sold (something the DF are well aware of to be fair) but new joiners want a functioning and relatively bullsh*t free organisation that is fulfilling and fun. Unfortunately it needs an injection of new blood to get to that point so we may be in a chicken and egg type scenario.

    It doesn't seem to be a kosher argument on here but the US and UK boost their numbers by remunerating people for joining. Payment for all activities (including parade nights), a gratuity and bonuses for completing certain aspects (finishing recruit training). Not palatable for most and will never happen but I can't see numbers moving towards full establishment without such.

    Money might be a 'dirty' solution but it works.

    * (I also acknowledge that the UK reserves still have recruitment issues despite a system of bonuses but are still in a far better place than we are).
    Last edited by Auldsod; 13th August 2019 at 14:01.

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  19. #6988
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Generational differences is actually a huge one. There are more options for young people these days. They are also increasingly fickle.

    Back in the day, they would turn up to the local FCA/Slua location not really knowing what it was about aside from word of mouth. They'd get hooked.
    Also back in the day they weren't ignored for 6 to 8 months after applying. In my day they had you training during the security clearance period. Even in the 2000s there was a limited training facility that could be done pre-security clearance and a good recruiting team would be keeping tabs on people through that process. That being said I still would need to start the process on about 3 times as many people as I wanted to get through the door.

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  21. #6989
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    It's not the first and wont be the last, but how many have been disciplined both PDF &RDF.
    In my experience when an member of the RDF is to be disciplined, most just go non effective. Social media is a perfect example or this forum, we are all posting under false names because we are expressing our opinions, stories and some fact openly about the DF which we normally are not allowed. I bet htmurphy if I had the time and will I would find a comment you have made which breaks military law but no action can be taken because we don't know who you are but you do and if you are a current member of the DF you would also have broken military law.
    Everyone who served with murph knows who he is here. We dont all use false names.
    Your assumption regarding discipline in the reserve is, in my experience, nonsense. Maybe you witnessed a unit that has no interest in painting the military code of discipline but in the 3 formations I served.in this was not the case. People were disciplined with due process and procedure (myself included) took it on the chin and continued serving. In my 12 years I saw at least 10 reservists being marched for orders.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  23. #6990
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Me too, and I have been on the receiving end. I have also know those who went to great lengths to frustrate the system.

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  25. #6991
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Everyone who served with murph knows who he is here. We dont all use false names.
    Your assumption regarding discipline in the reserve is, in my experience, nonsense. Maybe you witnessed a unit that has no interest in painting the military code of discipline but in the 3 formations I served.in this was not the case. People were disciplined with due process and procedure (myself included) took it on the chin and continued serving. In my 12 years I saw at least 10 reservists being marched for orders.
    Not picking a fight but before the reorg and our problem with numbers I did witness orders in my unit. I'm referring to more recent years. And to be fair I don't know anyone on this forum, like I said before I've reading the forum for a number of years but only joined in the last few months.

  26. #6992
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    It doesn't seem to be a kosher argument on here but the US and UK boost their numbers by remunerating people for joining. Payment for all activities (including parade nights), a gratuity and bonuses for completing certain aspects (finishing recruit training). Not palatable for most and will never happen but I can't see numbers moving towards full establishment without such.

    Money might be a 'dirty' solution but it works.

    I don't agree with all you have said. We are volunteers first or we were. A lot of young lads I know in my unit want payment for everything and its spreeding through the unit. I think it's bad for business. Bring back the grat and continue with unpaid training nights. Keep the camps up. Recruits are paid for the bigger commitment they must make. If we start looking at pay for this and that, we will be gone, DOD have no interest in it. I'm sure your unit is pretty active with plans for training every parade night briefed to all by unit training officer and NCO. It's up to each individual to be proactive and suggest real plans to move your unit along and keep it interesting. Some Cadre will assist and some delay, we have a mixture of both. Not sure how they are in the NSR.

  27. #6993
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    €1m for 4 replacement boats.
    The DoD will most likely have much more than €1m to hand back at the end of the year due to the low numbers of those serving!

  28. #6994
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    You would imagine.
    I am nearing the end of my service and I kept beliving that it would get better and the RDF would flourish but I fear I am wrong.

  29. #6995
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    It's not the first and wont be the last, but how many have been disciplined both PDF &RDF.
    In my experience when an member of the RDF is to be disciplined, most just go non effective. Social media is a perfect example or this forum, we are all posting under false names because we are expressing our opinions, stories and some fact openly about the DF which we normally are not allowed. I bet htmurphy if I had the time and will I would find a comment you have made which breaks military law but no action can be taken because we don't know who you are but you do and if you are a current member of the DF you would also have broken military law.
    I post under my own name, I even posted stuff relevant to my unit while I was serving, I came close to the line but never crossed, the mods here will ensure that you don't. I had various bodies within the DF watching everything I posted here both inside my unit and higher... I was told directly to my face, I was confronted by people on camps higher in rank and people actually came along and introduced themselves, in fact I met one of my best friends through here, years ago when there were more serving it was more like an online club for reservists with a few PDF guys thrown in.


    I will talk openly about my service with the NS..in the past, I will offer opinion, but I have never engaged with the press...and as I've said, breaking military law is a very easy thing to do even in thought....

    I never considered any serviceman to be perfect and could tell tails that would make your hair go white....everyone has secrets.. I even know some about people here, who they are and what they have done in the past.. that's sedition by the way another chargeable offence!

    There has to be self restraint around saying what and when and where online, there is bullshit attached to every aspect of life and yes freedom of the press and access to it is a privilege, but don't fcuk it up or even encourage others to do so.

    I believe in the UK armed forces the spouse of a serving individual is subject to aspects of military law and mothing off to the press is not something that is tolerated.....might not be a bad idea here either.

    the current debacle over who said what about ships being tied up is the ultimate PR nightmare because the press got hold of something, probably intended to get to them but it has done irreparable damage to the image of the DF, The FOCNS actions were correct.....but he's left himself open to the press via the debacle the government caused....

    And he's the FOCNS.... not some two star back from camp who didn't like the pillows....but decided the Daily Slag needed to know.
    Time for another break I think......

  30. #6996
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    When I saw what was happening at the 2005 re org I knew it was doomed....The FCA higher ups sold out for 4 x Lt Colonels and bought into a graded RDF hook line and sinker to be hoisted by their own petard.

    A lot of young lads I know in my unit want payment for everything and its spreeding through the unit
    its a cyclical argument which we have been through for the existence of the forum, simple choices, people need money and have access to near full employment again, while they'll never have access to the money I had back in 2001/02/03 they do need to be kept motivated.....use the UK TA model for payment.....but guess what they won't....so we'll...well I'll be having the same discussion in 15 years time again!

    People were disciplined with due process and procedure (myself included) took it on the chin and continued serving.
    Yeah I was pissed off they wouldn't let me do escort! ....shafted in your case!
    Time for another break I think......

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  32. #6997
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    I am nearing the end of my service and I kept beliving that it would get better and the RDF would flourish but I fear I am wrong.

    I am working right up against it at the moment and there are no limits to it, and the level of co-operation in resource - if it's there its offered, people are tight but thats a common song. nearly all the things I'd fix are in the Department's control not the PDFs.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  34. #6998
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    Just throwing in a few thoughts of my time in the T.A. that may be of use.

    1. The reserves are volunteers. That means they don't have to be there, but want to be there. This puts the onus on the organisation to provide an environment that the volunteers will wish to attend. Esprit de corps does a lot, not wanting to let people down, but also feeling that as an individual you are valued and necessary. The easiest way for the organisation to express that value is payment. It is recognising that as an individual, your service to the state is worth something.

    2. Also, as I'm sure Reservists know, but Regulars sometimes need reminding, it's better to lead than drive. I remember a new RSM being posted to my unit - it was his first real interaction with the TA. His first few weeks, he obviously wanted to make an impression, and parade nights became about how much beasting he could give everyone. After about six weeks, attendance had dropped from 60 odd to 20 odd on parade night. Eventually, one of the officers (very old and bold) who had three children and a son in Law serving with the unit, invited the RSM out for a drink and gently pointed out the difference between how to treat a squad of 18-19 year old privates who had to be there every morning regardless, and a squad of 25-35 year olds who had a lot of life experience, and could decide to stay at home and watch The Rockford Files rather than spending hours ironing kit and going out in the cold just to be shouted at.I

    I'm not saying discipline isn't important, just that people who join up are enthusiastic. There must be some way to keep the enthusiasm up.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  36. #6999
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Also back in the day they weren't ignored for 6 to 8 months after applying. In my day they had you training during the security clearance period. Even in the 2000s there was a limited training facility that could be done pre-security clearance and a good recruiting team would be keeping tabs on people through that process. That being said I still would need to start the process on about 3 times as many people as I wanted to get through the door.
    In this period, is there no way to even just do fitness training on a regular basis with the wannabe recruits - with a bit of imagination, it wouldn't have to be done anywhere security clearance is required. Cross-country running, hikes, orienteering, local park circuit's (I know a few parks and seafront in North County Dublin have exercise machines along then, for example , and few laps of Ardgillan would stretch anybody!).

    It's a way of keeping interest up, having recruits at a standard before formal training starts, and give the organisation a chance to start assessing everyone before accepting them.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  37. #7000
    C/S Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post

    I don't agree with all you have said. We are volunteers first or we were. A lot of young lads I know in my unit want payment for everything and its spreeding through the unit. I think it's bad for business. Bring back the grat and continue with unpaid training nights. Keep the camps up. Recruits are paid for the bigger commitment they must make. If we start looking at pay for this and that, we will be gone, DOD have no interest in it. I'm sure your unit is pretty active with plans for training every parade night briefed to all by unit training officer and NCO. It's up to each individual to be proactive and suggest real plans to move your unit along and keep it interesting. Some Cadre will assist and some delay, we have a mixture of both. Not sure how they are in the NSR.
    Assuming we were to pay a quarter days pay for a training night, I calculate that I'd still only see 7 euro (or less) after tax. It would work out to a max of maybe the equivalent of 11-12 training days if you attended everything. The RDF isn't using it's full allocation of days so ironically, the funding is probably there already. It's less the amount of remuneration and the usefulness of it more just the feeling you are getting something small back. Younger members and recruits are far less likely to be on the top rate of tax so would benefit more.

    I also think the grat would be useful especially if the requirements for receipt were kept exceptionally tight with no strokes pulled. Maybe twenty training days (weekends and FTT training only). Passing of ITs also a requirement. It would mean only those properly committed to the unit receive and it would encourage others to do the same.

    Seems relatively inexpensive and effective to me...

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