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  1. #7001
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Also back in the day they weren't ignored for 6 to 8 months after applying. In my day they had you training during the security clearance period. Even in the 2000s there was a limited training facility that could be done pre-security clearance and a good recruiting team would be keeping tabs on people through that process. That being said I still would need to start the process on about 3 times as many people as I wanted to get through the door.
    The Planning for recruitment TI?

    I can’t remember the exact phrasing in the TI but it was intended to bridge the gap while waiting for s/clearance (even allows some weapons familiarisation). Everyone had forgotten about it (my old sub-Unit had used it from the start) until it came up at a conference.

    But, open to correction, but it appears that currently it isn’t being done until after s/clearance has been completed.



    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post

    the current debacle over who said what about ships being tied up is the ultimate PR nightmare because the press got hold of something, probably intended to get to them but it has done irreparable damage to the image of the DF, The FOCNS actions were correct.....but he's left himself open to the press via the debacle the government caused....

    And he's the FOCNS.... not some two star back from camp who didn't like the pillows....but decided the Daily Slag needed to know.
    The people to blame there are DoD

    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    When I saw what was happening at the 2005 re org I knew it was doomed....The FCA higher ups sold out for 4 x Lt Colonels and bought into a graded RDF hook line and sinker to be hoisted by their own petard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo
    2. Also, as I'm sure Reservists know, but Regulars sometimes need reminding, it's better to lead than drive. I remember a new RSM being posted to my unit - it was his first real interaction with the TA. His first few weeks, he obviously wanted to make an impression, and parade nights became about how much beasting he could give everyone. After about six weeks, attendance had dropped from 60 odd to 20 odd on parade night. Eventually, one of the officers (very old and bold) who had three children and a son in Law serving with the unit, invited the RSM out for a drink and gently pointed out the difference between how to treat a squad of 18-19 year old privates who had to be there every morning regardless, and a squad of 25-35 year olds who had a lot of life experience, and could decide to stay at home and watch The Rockford Files rather than spending hours ironing kit and going out in the cold just to be shouted at.I

    I'm not saying discipline isn't important, just that people who join up are enthusiastic. There must be some way to keep the enthusiasm up.
    But at that stage the damage is done and it’s too late

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    In this period, is there no way to even just do fitness training on a regular basis with the wannabe recruits - with a bit of imagination, it wouldn't have to be done anywhere security clearance is required. Cross-country running, hikes, orienteering, local park circuit's (I know a few parks and seafront in North County Dublin have exercise machines along then, for example , and few laps of Ardgillan would stretch anybody!).

    It's a way of keeping interest up, having recruits at a standard before formal training starts, and give the organisation a chance to start assessing everyone before accepting them.
    Lack of PTLs and numbers
    There is a TI there that can be used

    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Assuming we were to pay a quarter days pay for a training night, I calculate that I'd still only see 7 euro (or less) after tax. It would work out to a max of maybe the equivalent of 11-12 training days if you attended everything. The RDF isn't using it's full allocation of days so ironically, the funding is probably there already. It's less the amount of remuneration and the usefulness of it more just the feeling you are getting something small back. Younger members and recruits are far less likely to be on the top rate of tax so would benefit more.

    I also think the grat would be useful especially if the requirements for receipt were kept exceptionally tight with no strokes pulled. Maybe twenty training days (weekends and FTT training only). Passing of ITs also a requirement. It would mean only those properly committed to the unit receive and it would encourage others to do the same.

    Seems relatively inexpensive and effective to me...
    D Res is actively pushing for all the mandays to be used and if they he will look for more.

    At least 1 formation used all their mandays last year and received additional ones. I know of individuals who has done far in excess of 7 mandays (as in many multiples of 7).

    It is only unit policies, people not wanting to do paperwork and shredders that are preventing it. Although an updated AFC 297 is required.

  2. #7002
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    What Dev says about mandays is true. I have seen a document, by accident, which had all RDF mandays accounted for 2018, including RDFRA days. Some people who can give the time exceed 42 and it was not just a hand full. Even rdfra people I know were up to 21 days.
    DRES has said to use them up.

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  4. #7003
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Some things are done by men on the ground, a lot is done in project work thats not FTT but needs doing all the same, I'd be way over 42 . Problem for most people is its like this .

    Also remember some of what we do is volunteer service, not all weekends are paid but with the removal of the Grat that pendulum swings its own way
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  6. #7004
    C/S Auldsod's Avatar
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    Also just want to clarify that I don't think that the RDF should be a big earner for joiners. I think we can all agree that none of us are greatly financially benefiting from the organisation and nor do we want to. We would mostly all stay involved even if the financial conditions became worse.

    I'm purely thinking from the perspective of an 18 year old or someone in their mid twenties with a useful skill. Maybe they will eventually get to a point where they are proud of and are willing to put in a LOT of their own time unpaid into the organisation but they need to be brought up to that point first.

    We need to think about this issue from the mind set of a new joiner and not from that of an NCO or officer already heavily invested. If the DoD and DF aren't pragmatic in how the approach increasing the size of the reserve, it will continue to whither.

    Increasing available training days and decreasing the time taken for security clearance coupled with more regular recruitment is only part of the solution (and welcome) but there need to be other incentives or we are just flogging a dead horse.

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  8. #7005
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Some things are done by men on the ground, a lot is done in project work thats not FTT but needs doing all the same, I'd be way over 42 . Problem for most people is its like this .

    Also remember some of what we do is volunteer service, not all weekends are paid but with the removal of the Grat that pendulum swings its own way
    Not forgetting that there are no KPIs any more to be measured against so it is really just:
    48 hours unpaid (or which 24 hrs can be counted if you do 7 days continuous FTT)
    TOETs & PWT (for operational effectiveness)
    Medical / AF14C (for operational effectiveness)
    ITs (for operational effectiveness)



    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Also just want to clarify that I don't think that the RDF should be a big earner for joiners. I think we can all agree that none of us are greatly financially benefiting from the organisation and nor do we want to. We would mostly all stay involved even if the financial conditions became worse.

    I'm purely thinking from the perspective of an 18 year old or someone in their mid twenties with a useful skill. Maybe they will eventually get to a point where they are proud of and are willing to put in a LOT of their own time unpaid into the organisation but they need to be brought up to that point first.

    We need to think about this issue from the mind set of a new joiner and not from that of an NCO or officer already heavily invested. If the DoD and DF aren't pragmatic in how the approach increasing the size of the reserve, it will continue to whither.

    Increasing available training days and decreasing the time taken for security clearance coupled with more regular recruitment is only part of the solution (and welcome) but there need to be other incentives or we are just flogging a dead horse.
    You don’t generally don’t even cover your expenses with RDF pay but it helps towards them so it isn’t as costly to be a member

    Twice annual recruitment is even difficult due to lack of JNCOs

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