The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

[SwiftandSure]

Anyone see the RDFRA submission to the committee today?

Yep

[goc132]

so how did it go today

[Infy]

Care to expand?

[Truck Driver]

Care to expand?

As in how did the RDFRA delegation get on with the Dail committee yesterday...

[SwiftandSure]

Care to expand?

I think it went well and I'm glad to see some productive RDFRA outputs. They've been a long time coming.

There are some new faces in RDFRA, including a new and very keen General Secretary. I don't think the brand is going to be repaired overnight, but at least it's reassuring to know that people are putting the effort in to represent the RDF and develop its contribution to the Single Force Concept.

Anyway, if you Youtube search "RDFRA", you find this:



Having spoken to those involved in the meeting, I'm told there will a significant follow up on the points raised.

[Bam Bam]

It would be very interesting to see the follow up as there was a lot of good points raised.

[na grohmiti]

Great to see all the (mostly) new faces representing the RDFRA. All bar one appear to be under 40 at least, and better representative of the rank and file? In the early days it was the preserve of mostly middle aged officer and senior NCO types, with the token youngster.

[apod]

One guy they still need to divest themselves of.The main instigator of the whole"lets replace the PDF" document as I have been reliably informed.
Other than that guy being even allowed to represent the RDF in that forum I thought they made cogent,well thought out arguments.Still a bit too much pointing the finger at us black hats for all their woes but,but on balance from the 40 mins I listened to before the long haired general put a stop to it I thought they had a few good points.

[hptmurphy]

Mr. Cooney has failed to realise that the whole thing has been set up to fail from day one.

\The PDF is a job, the RDF is not, if it infringes on your leave etc.. get the fcuk out....

I'd love to reach over the desk and box the head off him. If they don't know...they should know, as there was enough time to find out since 2005.

[DeV]

Mr. Cooney has failed to realise that the whole thing has been set up to fail from day one.

\The PDF is a job, the RDF is not, if it infringes on your leave etc.. get the fcuk out....

I'd love to reach over the desk and box the head off him. If they don't know...they should know, as there was enough time to find out since 2005.

I believe that is the point he was making!

The State says it needs a reserve but so many obstacles are put in the way it makes it unsustainable.

Your argument is so:
It was set up to fail. Instead of being proactive and trying to make it work, help it fail ?

[morpheus]

Key points for me are
set up to fail
admin issues taking up man days
employment engagement with a view show benefits of employing reservists and on to legislation
comparison and alignment with international norms in forces of similiar structure in similiar countries (wqill require more investment in defence budget and a reorg of practices overall to see this one happen - as a % of GDP)
I didnt see any points raised to replace the pdf in this, I thought that the lads all made good points worthy of debate, fair balls to them giving enough of a sh*t to get themselves into a committee meeting in the first place.

The future of the RDF has to be to Augment and support the PDF with DEFINED integrated roles - WITH counter support from the PDF and DOD and legislators , this can only happen with a change in the strategic landscape and national understanding of defence requirements at a government level. More comparisons with other nations NEED to be made and not just with reservists, but with army, aircorps and navy. and more often. and publicly. It needs to be spoon fed directly down the necks of the public. they need to start seeing the NEED for a modern integrated military comparable with international partners and up to international best practices and norms.

Most of the public and lets be honest, think of the DF embedded against a 1950s ireland backdrop.

Good point I felt that was raised was about how the VFM review group mentioned Reservists in other countries and then deliberately had a lobotomy and completely f**king ignored everything that they had read about them.

[trellheim]

There are reservists currently instructing reservists from other countries, right here,right now.

[Infy]

And not for the first time either. It's gas when talking to military folk from other countries and try to explain the RDF. The look on their face when the details are given is often amusing. Common phrases used include:
What do you mean you don't have employment protection?
What do you mean, you don't go overseas?
Your equipment is shared?
What exactly do you do then?

I've said it many times over, the RDF is doomed from the get go of the VFM. I think 2016 one of two things will happen:
1. All Coys etc outside of a barracks will be culled reducing it to Coy Strength in each BN/Regt etc. DFTC units will be merged or binned leaving just training staff for career courses.

2. Easter parade and out the gap, thanks lads but you're worse than useless.

I think it will be option 2. Don't forget the DF have new ships to pay for, equipment to maintain/replace. A few extra million from the RDF will soften that cost a bit. A civil servant does not see or value the work and effort that many in the RDF put into it, nor do they care. It's all about the money money money, and right now the country doesn't have a lot of it.

[DeV]

Key points for me are
set up to fail
admin issues taking up man days
employment engagement with a view show benefits of employing reservists and on to legislation
comparison and alignment with international norms in forces of similiar structure in similiar countries (wqill require more investment in defence budget and a reorg of practices overall to see this one happen - as a % of GDP)
I didnt see any points raised to replace the pdf in this, I thought that the lads all made good points worthy of debate, fair balls to them giving enough of a sh*t to get themselves into a committee meeting in the first place.

The future of the RDF has to be to Augment and support the PDF with DEFINED integrated roles - WITH counter support from the PDF and DOD and legislators , this can only happen with a change in the strategic landscape and national understanding of defence requirements at a government level. More comparisons with other nations NEED to be made and not just with reservists, but with army, aircorps and navy. and more often. and publicly. It needs to be spoon fed directly down the necks of the public. they need to start seeing the NEED for a modern integrated military comparable with international partners and up to international best practices and norms.

Most of the public and lets be honest, think of the DF embedded against a 1950s ireland backdrop.

Good point I felt that was raised was about how the VFM review group mentioned Reservists in other countries and then deliberately had a lobotomy and completely f**king ignored everything that they had read about them.

The VFM also ignored a lot of the T&C, deployment, use etc of comparable reserves

And completely ignored the FLR

The role should be:
A) bring PDF units up to correct (non ECF) establishment for ops & training (eg a battalion ex with a 3 full infantry Coys on the ground, plus HQ & Sp Coys)
B) assist PDF units in duties (ceremonials, barracks, ATCA and maybe in time ATCP)
C) training to provide surge capability as required

There are reservists currently instructing reservists from other countries, right here,right now.

I was on a course instructed by a foreign reservist this year

And not for the first time either. It's gas when talking to military folk from other countries and try to explain the RDF. The look on their face when the details are given is often amusing. Common phrases used include:
What do you mean you don't have employment protection?
What do you mean, you don't go overseas?
Your equipment is shared?
What exactly do you do then?

I've said it many times over, the RDF is doomed from the get go of the VFM. I think 2016 one of two things will happen:
1. All Coys etc outside of a barracks will be culled reducing it to Coy Strength in each BN/Regt etc. DFTC units will be merged or binned leaving just training staff for career courses.

2. Easter parade and out the gap, thanks lads but you're worse than useless.

I think it will be option 2. Don't forget the DF have new ships to pay for, equipment to maintain/replace. A few extra million from the RDF will soften that cost a bit. A civil servant does not see or value the work and effort that many in the RDF put into it, nor do they care. It's all about the money money money, and right now the country doesn't have a lot of it.

They should have got rid of the 16 coys outside barracks. Result:
2-3 RDF sub units per PDF unit (ie 2-3 RDF Coys per inf Bn / 2-3 RDF Plns per Tpt coy) co-located with their sub-units (eg 2 Plns Tpt in Athlone, 1 in Dublin)

The RDF (like the PDF) will never be fully manned. And not everyone will be available when you want them (therefore maybe your establishment to 2-3 Coys per unit).

Use the savings to give everyone up to 14 mandays, give grat (to offset the travel etc), change regulations to take account of KPIs, put resources in place to help the RDF achieve what they want us to achieve (eg common standards but make it more flexible as to how they are achieved).

And you still have a similar number to the current establishment, you have probably a 50% saving in the cost of the pre VFM RDF and you have an efficient effective VFM useable RDF element of the DF.

[trellheim]

2. Easter parade and out the gap, thanks lads but you're worse than useless.

I think it will be option 2. Don't forget the DF have new ships to pay for, equipment to maintain/replace. A few extra million from the RDF will soften that cost a bit. A civil servant does not see or value the work and effort that many in the RDF put into it, nor do they care. It's all about the money money money, and right now the country doesn't have a lot of it.

Bord Snip recommended exactly that, and we are still here.
Reservists had a limited degree of employment protection up until 1954 ( this was brought in to cover the Emergency period, and the at-the-time new Act repealed this protection ( sigh ) ) . See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1940/...057.html#sec57