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  • The point in the statement about R5 hanging fire for several years while A9 is updated in minutes when someone gets the hump over a bagger officer wearing an issued peaker is telling.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      I note, btw, in reading the revised estimates, that RDF recruitment is a KPI to not increase the numbers on strength. ( my bad : should have remembered they put those KPIs in there now ).
      It's what about 50% at the minute?

      Be increase 57-65% for 2017

      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
      given that, and i don't disagree, i wonder what the 'drag' the Reserve imposes on the Regular force is..?

      X thousand clothing sets, Y thousand rifles to be maintained and upgraded, Z% of the Regular force working time supporting the Reserve...

      would that lot provide an Arid/Desert combat uniform, Minimis and DMR's for the overseas Bn, and a couple of extra hundred rounds of 5.56 each year for everyone going away?
      Probably cover SDA for a week

      Comment


      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        The point in the statement about R5 hanging fire for several years while A9 is updated in minutes when someone gets the hump over a bagger officer wearing an issued peaker is telling.
        They went to lots of trouble getting black berets so everyone would look the same, until they realised the officers would look the same too, and that can't be.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
          They went to lots of trouble getting black berets so everyone would look the same, until they realised the officers would look the same too, and that can't be.
          Thing is in the modern era there dress regulations (until recently) didn't differentiate between PDF and RDF (we should have been wearing black berets all along)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
            The point in the statement about R5 hanging fire for several years while A9 is updated in minutes when someone gets the hump over a bagger officer wearing an issued peaker is telling.
            Blame yourselves for that.IE the people who lobbied their RDF comrades who also happened to be members of political parties who then lobbied the Minister at the time so that they could keep their positions and not be f***ed out simply by shelving the amended R5. That's why some units have one real RDF Coy Comdr and two or three hangers on who are SWA.
            Vested interests are a bitch aren't they lads!

            Said it before and said it again.The oath should be the same for ALL in the DF. No political connections!!!

            BTW Forgot to add that A9 was amended lightning quick RE officers peakers because some RDF Officers chinned off a direct instruction from OIC A ADMIN that Glengarries were to be worn for the 1916 medal presentations.
            Bad idea when all he had to do was go into work the following morning and click on a mouse and change the document his department was responsible for.
            Last edited by apod; 12 February 2017, 12:42.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by apod View Post
              Blame yourselves for that.IE the people who lobbied their RDF comrades who also happened to be members of political parties who then lobbied the Minister at the time so that they could keep their positions and not be f***ed out simply by shelving the amended R5. That's why some units have one real RDF Coy Comdr and two or three hangers on who are SWA.
              How many PDF people got f*cked out over the PDF reorg?

              Comment


              • Blame yourselves for that.IE the people who lobbied their RDF comrades who also happened to be members of political parties who then lobbied the Minister at the time so that they could keep their positions and not be f***ed out simply by shelving the amended R5. That's why some units have one real RDF Coy Comdr and two or three hangers on who are SWA.
                Vested interests are a bitch aren't they lads!

                Said it before and said it again.The oath should be the same for ALL in the DF. No political connections!!!

                BTW Forgot to add that A9 was amended lightning quick RE officers peakers because some RDF Officers chinned off a direct instruction from OIC A ADMIN that Glengarries were to be worn for the 1916 medal presentations.
                Bad idea when all he had to do was go into work the following morning and click on a mouse and change the document his department was responsible for.
                In regard to your OIC A Admin instr - yes - agreed, that particular contretemps is well known in the force -

                BUT - my point is exactly that, it is rather that when they want to , it can happen damn quick

                In relation to your first point, SWA being kept on cos of political allegiances and R5 hanging for the same reason - once again - I've never, ever seen it in the force - straight honest answer and I'd know nearly every officer in old 2 Bde and DFTC
                Last edited by trellheim; 12 February 2017, 16:27.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • Not to be a regulatory nerd or anything..... but , R5 is a DFR and goes through all the various levels of consultation to be amended once decided... about a year, Part 9 is an Admin Instr and is amended at the stroke of a generals pen. Bottom line is the department own one and the military own the other , so they can't really do certain things all that fast....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    How many PDF people got f*cked out over the PDF reorg?
                    To be honest Dev, quite a few ( like their RDF comrades) were effectively contructively dismissed ..... it has just taken a while longer, that was the re-org for ya.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      How many PDF people got f*cked out over the PDF reorg?
                      Are you for real?

                      Let's rephrase the question... How many PDF people were forced out due to the reorg? We didn't get the option to go SWA and just keep on rocking upto wherever suited us. For a lot of people that meant having to leave the DF. Don't even attempt to equate what went on with the PDF reorg to what the RDF are upto.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                        Are you for real?

                        Let's rephrase the question... How many PDF people were forced out due to the reorg? We didn't get the option to go SWA and just keep on rocking upto wherever suited us. For a lot of people that meant having to leave the DF. Don't even attempt to equate what went on with the PDF reorg to what the RDF are upto.
                        Equally

                        Paid full time job -V- unpaid (not even expensed) part time / casual organisation.

                        I'll rephrase too:
                        Was there any PDF personnel who had emirgrated, been discharged or had died 5 years previously who were assigned a post in the reorg'ed PDF (which somehow had signed a form indicating where they wanted to go) but a the incumbent was posted to a different brigade?

                        My understanding of the PDF reorg was that SWA wasn't allowed but there were some (few) ranks were the existing strength was higher than the new establishment, what happened them (I don't know hence the question?

                        The RDF reassignment process was a complete farce especially in a particular brigade, that had decided to take it on themselves to suspend all training.

                        Comment


                        • Equally

                          Paid full time job -V- unpaid (not even expensed) part time / casual organisation.

                          I'll rephrase too:
                          Was there any PDF personnel who had emirgrated, been discharged or had died 5 years previously who were assigned a post in the reorg'ed PDF (which somehow had signed a form indicating where they wanted to go) but a the incumbent was posted to a different brigade?

                          My understanding of the PDF reorg was that SWA wasn't allowed but there were some (few) ranks were the existing strength was higher than the new establishment, what happened them (I don't know hence the question?

                          The RDF reassignment process was a complete farce especially in a particular brigade, that had decided to take it on themselves to suspend all training.
                          I'm not entirely sure drawing parallels between the RDF and PDF reorg is worth anything here except pulling scabs, tbh
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                            Are you for real?

                            Let's rephrase the question... How many PDF people were forced out due to the reorg? We didn't get the option to go SWA and just keep on rocking upto wherever suited us. For a lot of people that meant having to leave the DF. Don't even attempt to equate what went on with the PDF reorg to what the RDF are upto.
                            What he said.No SWA. You either moved to another unit often times a long way from where to had been serving and at often a great financial burden or you left simple as.And all we have is PDFORRA to speak out for us.
                            No Dail Committees,no embedded members of political parties,no former members of the force as shadow defence minister haranguing the incumbent,
                            Oh and just because YOU haven't seen it Trell doesn't mean lobbying didn't happen.It did.And R5 still goes unsigned.ASk yourself who benefits from it NOT being signed? Even the much vaunted RDFRA headshed do!!
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              I'm not entirely sure drawing parallels between the RDF and PDF reorg is worth anything here except pulling scabs, tbh
                              [QUOTE=apod;448491]What he said.No SWA. You either moved to another unit often times a long way from where to had been serving and at often a great financial burden or you left simple as.

                              And all we have is PDFORRA to speak out for us..And R5 still goes unsigned.ASk yourself who benefits from it NOT being signed? Even the much vaunted RDFRA headshed do!!
                              I'm comparing apples and pears I know but it's 2 different ways of how similar things were implemented.

                              Neither is necessarily a good way to keep and retain people. It's even harder when you receive next to no payment for it. If a PDF guy is posted from Cork to the DFTC he potentionally can get accommodation etc to make it more viable (plus it's how he pays his bills), if an RDF man gets the same posting he could continue parading at his current post (which will never have enough people anyway) or leave, it isn't liable in the RDF to travel that distance for zero return.

                              There are plenty of good RDF people who weren't / couldn't be given a spot anywhere in the country due to the establishment being reduced (same with PDF).

                              What happened in the ranks of the PDF where the strength was higher than the new establishment? Were they discharged? Reduced in rank?

                              Did PDFORRA even speak out?

                              Comment


                              • Again how did members of the PDF who had be already discharged, people who were on career breaks/long term leave/secondment, people who had died 5 years previously received postings at that expense of others?

                                Did an assignment board from 1 of the formations take it upon themselves to do part of the job of another?

                                This actually happened in the RDF reorg (seconded etc is the closest I can of to noneffective).

                                Comment

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