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  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

    Is it time for the non-integrated reserve to hang up its boots??

    We know that integration was has successes & failures but if the non-integrated was got rid of completely think of the savings & there was just integrated (properly equipped & trained to (close to) PDF standards):

    Transport
    Rations
    Uniforms & Equipment
    Rent, maintanance, Light & Heat
    Pay & Grat
    etc

    The reorg has been a disaster! - by the end of 2009 the following is supposed to have happened:
    Legislation to allow overseas service (by Dec 06)
    Overseas training (start 2007)
    Steyr programe (by Dec 07)

    It would mean getting rid of 9292 non-integrated reservists.

    Taughts?

  2. #2
    Colonel johnny no stars's Avatar
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    Steyr Programme?
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

  3. #3
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    Wasn't the FCA (up until the late 1970s) fully integrated with the PDF?

    Why not try to attempt the same again (as I think odin has argued previously on this site)?
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

  4. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    purchasing programme JNS

  5. #5
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    You need to ask was the Integration of the 70s productive? It was not as we know it today. I know there are a few on this site who were a part of it.

  6. #6
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    70s integration was TRUE integration. RDF subunits were part of PDF units, ie a PDF Bn would have a couple of RDF rifle coys. Options existed for full time service (as the TA do), and the PDF had a hand in everything. Sounds like just what the RDF needs right now (too bad it'll never happen)

  7. #7
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Steyr Programme complete my entire ass. I mean like wtf
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  8. #8
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Steyr Programme complete my entire ass. I mean like wtf
    I really dont get your response to this, FN's are gone and the stores are full of Steyrs(well in my unit anyway). Does your unit need to borrow rifles from another bn?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  9. #9
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Without delving into detail , you should research the topic. This is an open board.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  10. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    70s integration was TRUE integration. RDF subunits were part of PDF units, ie a PDF Bn would have a couple of RDF rifle coys. .... and the PDF had a hand in everything.

    That is what the integration in the reorg was suppose to be!

  11. #11
    CQMS coffee's Avatar
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    I would favour the oppsite dev, that being scrap the integrated. Our reserve's strength is its numbers, losing the integrated would also mean savage savings and a loss of this two tier ideology.

    The majority of those that I have meet from the integrated have been less than desireable and walts of the highest order. Obviously there are those that do this training and go beyond what is required/expected and are a credit to the organisation etc but I still hold the previous view in the main.

    My feelings are simple, alot of the reserve's senior officers are idiots who bask in the glory of their rank and know sfa about how to perform the duties assigned to them, period. Those officers that are younger are better by far but I have noticed that they generally medal in the affairs of their SNCOs and particulary JNCOs beyond what their supervisory duties need of them.

    Many SNCOs just treat the org as a drinking club and this is the most destructive element particulary as they are the enforcers of discipline (this is the motive for interference of officers). This, discipline, is the most lacking component in this organisation. Selection criteria for courses is not followed through as orders dictate and there is far to much 'socialising' among the ranks.

    My unit has a good reputation, constantly supporting the artillery school and various regiments in their training regimes. We have supplied CPOs GPOs Gunners and detachment commanders and have always been thanked and more importantly been asked back.

    The detachment commanders in my unit are confident they can do their job to the required level as their counterparts but would they be as perficient as a member of the PDF in other more general skills such as Admin and basic infantry skills? Their reply would be an obvious no.

    The unit has realised that, due to brigade run pnco courses, that although we are proficient section commanders we know little about Platoons in attack and although are troops well trained they are lacking in fieldcraft abilities (eg some have built trenches before, others havent, some know how to indicate targets confidently others dont).

    We know that we will not achieve the skill or knowledge level of our regular counterparts but we should all be capable of doing our jobs in a wartime sceniaro. last year while on camp I was shocked to see NCOs that had more in common with care bears than NCOs. Doesnt matter if you are a driver or even a medic you are still an aid to the military, for those of you that forget, this is the states wing of deadly violence, it is not a ****ing NGO.


    These basic skills and discipline can be built upon if necessary but unless the basics are right we might aswell go home. There are some basic things the higher ups could do if they wanted to reduce costs and increase outputs (in terms of supplying a structure and org of contingency) which have been said here before but should be given more though due to present circumstances.

    1. get rid of the dead weight with the fitness test, if you cant get a grade 5 its simple, you ain't worth shit.

    2. Give those with the knowledge the power to dismiss people who are, to put it plainly incompetent. Have an entrance fitness test and basic appitude tests. I know of a private in the medics who is 'under care' due to his mental state, there is NO place for such people in the org, it is too dangerous.

    3. Never say I have nothing to do "i have no training plan" although this is a failure from above do not let that failure go beyond you, make one yourself! get the relevant syllabus .I understand that some units do not have easy access to weapons but there is always plenty of map work and other theory to do which is just as important. As foucault said knowledge is power, knowledge is earned from doing your stuff (reading practicing asking). An instructor who's has large gaps in their knowledge in what it is they are supposed to be capable of teaching are distructive.

    4. Know your time to leave but know when to stay aswell, the DF has hopefully has done some good for you and if you have to stay in to contest the promotion of idiots (we all know the nepotism that goes on) do.

    I know that this been said has better by more experienced board members but couldn't help myself from this rant.

    Apologies

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  13. #12
    .303 MMG Vickers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    70s integration was TRUE integration. RDF subunits were part of PDF units, ie a PDF Bn would have a couple of RDF rifle coys. Options existed for full time service (as the TA do), and the PDF had a hand in everything. Sounds like just what the RDF needs right now (too bad it'll never happen)
    Not quiet accurate. From 1959 to 1979, in the case of inf it was at Bde level. Each Bde consisted of one PDF Bn and a number of FCA Bns. From a practical point of view, there was little integration because from an FCA point of view (and certainly from "other ranks" perspective) little happened above Bn level. Options existed for full time service because of the "troubles".
    Last edited by Vickers; 31st January 2009 at 21:40. Reason: spelling
    “Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight—we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy.” Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

  14. #13
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Great post Coffee, well said.

  15. #14
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    It took me a while to read, but I agree.
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  16. #15
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    get rid of the integrated element and rdf bn's . the integration scheme is a good idea but only benefits a few , what about those who have the will but for whatever means cannot commit, its also flawed in my opinion .

    most rdf bn's are nowhere near establishment , downgrade them to companies , get rid of the deadwood and useless mouths. each rdf coy should be put on the strength of a pdf unit and give them the job of training and maintaining their reserve element. hopefully those who arent up to the job will be forced to switch on or get out .

    with proper attention and support hopefully a more effective reserve can be maintained.
    Last edited by ollie; 31st January 2009 at 22:35. Reason: better wording came to mind.
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  17. #16
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    you'd see a lot of officers with no jobs then - wonder would they return to the ranks like some of them are so ready to do to go overseas

  18. #17
    C/S koppiteal's Avatar
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    i have to agree with coffee there is way too much meddling from the officers in my bn there is a serious lack of ncos because those who get the stripes get p***ed of with the way things are being run. I also think that in some units (my coy) the cadre staff interfere too much. I know they have a job to do but they should back off and let the RDF ncos do the job they got trained for. I think the cadre training sgt should train the unit ncos and then let them train the troops not train the whole plt/coy as a whole because this makes the rdf ncos redundant. Intergration is a two way thing you get out of it what you put in. How about pdf ncos accompaning 38 plts on camp and giving them training,now i know ive cintricded meself a bit there butwe did that pre reorg days and it worked a treat and our ncos got to learn that little extra and itt showed they also got contacts with the pdf bn and it helped getting notes or other training aids. Does anybody think that would work

  19. #18
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    I would suggest the PDF take control of recruit camps and 2 star camps. People on recruit camps do little more than march up and down a road for 2 weeks, and from talking to some of the people in my unit who did the 2 star camp this year it was a clusterf**k, with people not being allowed to do proper tactics because they would get their uniforms dirty. If the PDF took it over training at the early stages maybe then we could see an end to the nanny culture thats creeping in.

  20. #19
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    A couple of PDF officers and SNCOs per RDF unit on camp would be enough. The "they can't do tactics in case they get dirty" crowd tend to be RDF officers and SNCOs who have little to no grasp on reality, and don't realise that they're in a army, not a social club. Having someone with a black beret to say "pity about them getting dirty, get them into that river there Corporal" would help matters a lot.

  21. #20
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    And someone for the love of God sort out employment protection for the RDF. So finally, the lads and lassies can do all available training, courses etc. without having to worry about asking the boss for a week off here and there.

    Until such protection is in place, I fear that the Reserve will keep going round in circles.

  22. #21
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Anyway we will see on Tuesday where the Axe will fall. As part of the element of the DF that is the easiest to cut back on and costs the least, I expect it to be harsh.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  23. #22
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I was never in the FCA/RDF

    and never gave a ounce of thought into them - because they basically never concerned me

    but I was a young Cpl and detailed to train an FCA cse and I was kind of blown away by

    the sheer enthusaism of them- the course was probably the worse course I ever saw- couldnt

    march- dress right- do tactics - run-

    but it wasnt there fault they turned up week after week and the system failed them-

    I was amazed at how much they wanted to do and learn and how much an effort they put into it

    so after that I became an admirer of the FCA/RDF for the sheer willingness and the dedication

    sadly I dont see the same admiration or even a willingness to properly utilise this resource from

    the Dept-

    so in truth apart from sheer loyalty and good food I cant really see why 98 % of the RDF have gone to

    the Garda Reserve or the Civil Defence

    Trell is right your going to get slaughtered on tueday


    as I see it now and I am as far from insulting you as I could ever mean to be

    but the role of the RDF is simply

    1- to give a Comdt who isnt getting Lt Col a nie few bob before he retires
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  24. Likes DeV liked this post
  25. #23
    sergeant fred the red's Avatar
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    What is happening tuesday????
    Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

  26. #24
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The gory details of the Govt. cutbacks are announced.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  27. #25
    sergeant fred the red's Avatar
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    Cheers
    Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

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