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  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    While I appreciate Wicklaman's sentiment I disagree extremely strongly with it. Local training and local parading does not work; be a Scout Leader if that's your bag. There is no baby to throw out. Do rural units work hard when they get to barracks ? yes they do. ( I am not slagging off the troops they are excellent and committed too )

    It is the mindset of being here for the fortnight rather than for the 3 years
    I don't get what you mean by that last. And the "when they get to barracks" is rather opaque too. Just what do you think that rural units do in their centres and halls of a week night?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Prisoner View Post
      ..... the clown suit ....
      Ahhh, Prisoner, you don't realise it, but have brightened up my evening considerably...

      I still remember the individual involved recounting the story as if it was yesterday...

      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

      Comment


      • Hi TD, the "shoes" was even better. Boiled down, those on high decided that the drivers for the SO would wear shoes with their SD1 trousers and not boots. Clothing forms prepared. Arrived at clothing stores, BQ says no, you're not entitled to shoes, get out. Retuned after lunch. BQ says "I've told you you're not entitled to shoes". BQ is handed a peice of paper with a number on it and politely asked to ring it. BQ rings the number and it was the first time I've actually seen the colour drain from a persons face. BQ puts the phone down, turns to the Pte and says "Given them what they want" The person on the other end of the phone had loads of "scrambeled egg" on his cap.

        It's 6.20am and I'm off on FTT.
        I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
        Who is number 1?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by luchi View Post
          Now its one thing sending the lads off to work for a film company.
          Thats just like them taking up a job. You know they will be back.
          But to do it as an exercise where they are expected to know their drills and perform as part of a unit.
          Imagine how people might think this the way to go and then look to be permanently with what should have been a temporary unit.
          How would COs be able to maintain their units?
          It wouldn't be a temporary Unit though. They'd be a Coy, Troop, whatever in a PDF Unit. I guarantee you CO's would have a far better chance of retaining and recruiting troops to meet establishment if they were part of a PDF Unit compared to an RDF one.

          Originally posted by kermit
          Exactly how big do you think a Squadron is?
          Fine, for the Cav merely have an RDF Troop in the PDF Squadron.

          I've seen 62 Cav Squadron parade, they can't field a platoon on a training night. They're not going to fill a Squadron anytime soon.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
            I've seen 62 Cav Squadron parade, they can't field a platoon on a training night. They're not going to fill a Squadron anytime soon.
            A far hue and cry from years ago, I can assure you...
            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
              It wouldn't be a temporary Unit though.
              Exactly. No officer or NCO wants to give away troops.


              Fine, for the Cav merely have an RDF Troop in the PDF Squadron.
              And whether its pride or empire building no one wants to see their unit down graded.

              just imagine what would happen if some one decided that 2nd Bn should become Coys of 5Bn and all O and NCO redeployed accordingly.

              it would be done if it it had to be done, just like the previous unit amalgamations of the old FCA but can you really critisise people for resisting?
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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              • 2nd Bn should become Coys of 5Bn and all O and NCO redeployed accordingly.
                You are closer to reality with that statement than you realise.
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • Exactly. No officer or NCO wants to give away troops.
                  You see, this is one of the problems I have. "Want" doesn't come into it at all. It's a detail, get it done, party on afterwards.

                  As Officers and NCOs "want" doesn't come into the equation. If you get the order* you get behind it as if its your own, no trying to undermine it, no trying to bork it up, no passive-aggressive resistance, you carry out the order to the best of your ability. Otherwise the system is broken.


                  ( * legal order of course )
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Change management is key as is communications.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by luchi View Post
                      just imagine what would happen if some one decided that 2nd Bn should become Coys of 5Bn and all O and NCO redeployed accordingly.

                      it would be done if it it had to be done, just like the previous unit amalgamations of the old FCA but can you really critisise people for resisting?
                      That's the reality for 2 Bn at the moment. Come 2012 the Vikings won't exist in the DF.

                      I can't imagine many people are happy with it but everyone is going to crack on because it's what needs to be done. Nobody is going to "resist" a move that is for the good of the DF.

                      People who's only interest is in empire building and what they want, have no place in the RDF or PDF.

                      Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      You see, this is one of the problems I have. "Want" doesn't come into it at all. It's a detail, get it done, party on afterwards.

                      As Officers and NCOs "want" doesn't come into the equation. If you get the order* you get behind it as if its your own, no trying to undermine it, no trying to bork it up, no passive-aggressive resistance, you carry out the order to the best of your ability. Otherwise the system is broken.


                      ( * legal order of course )
                      Exactly.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        "Want" doesn't come into it at all.
                        Surely you mean "shouldn't"?
                        For we all know that comand is a political game.
                        NCOs hold onto sections. O hold on to Pls and higher. None willrelinquish their hold. Those that could make them by detailing them to do so are too busy trying to hold onto their own corner of the kingdom.

                        Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
                        That's the reality for 2 Bn at the moment. Come 2012 the Vikings won't exist in the DF.
                        Ha Ha. Last time I suggested this I was told it could never happen.
                        But then I was also suggesting IF this happened to 2Bn then surely the same would happen to 62Bn.

                        Nobody is going to "resist" a move that is for the good of the DF.
                        Or has all the resistance been over come?
                        This move has been years in the making and still a year before it is done.
                        If the RDF mirrors the PDF then 62 Inf Bn should be going through same process and by 2012 only 65th Inf Bn should exist.
                        AFIK this is not the case.
                        As Trell says these things should just be got done. It is not a matter of needing to rehouse troops billeted in bks so it should be possible to do it in a matter of weeks or even days.
                        But whats the reality, how many years does it take from the conception to the reality?
                        Without supplies no army is brave.

                        —Frederick the Great,

                        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                        Comment


                        • If the 3 brigades each have 3 infantry battalions, why would they amalgamate 2 in the E Bde in this manner?
                          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                            If the 3 brigades each have 3 infantry battalions, why would they amalgamate 2 in the E Bde in this manner?
                            Beacause they are going to six full strength BNs in the DF and three "Category C" Bn's( coy+).
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
                              Nobody is going to "resist" a move that is for the good of the DF.
                              What's the claimed 'good' that's behind this? (There's an awful lot of broken promises down through the years)

                              Comment


                              • The "good" is that the organization will reflect reality - the cold economic reality if you like, but the zero recruitment reality too etc.

                                This isn't news at all if you've been following the CS4 discussions here over the last couple of years. Most of the PDF ( IMHO ) have been dreading that axe for , what, 18 months and more now ? It isn't fair to keep it hanging over them. Put it in and have done.
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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