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  • Originally posted by Dazzler View Post
    While I agree with the thought of that, there would be too many people complaining!!!
    depending on which barracks it's in, the complaints could well be legitimate.
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      There is if it's done right and fits into a grand scheme. Put up tents for a fortnight in Barracks. Just like the Special Olympics.

      The alternative is crap instruction to a half-arsed standard. Plus if you do it in a barracks you might get access to a PTI/PTS who can start people off on a proper athletic programme.
      The tents idea is a stopgap not a solution

      Tents are fine for three stars but they are of no use for recruit training or two star training.

      Personal admin needs to be learned in a billet before its practiced "in the field" and tents qualify for in the field

      PTI/PTS is a good idea but if the will was there they could be assigned to any RDF camp for the duration it shouldn't just have to be where they want and whats handier for them.
      It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        And in response .... what on earth does the admin side of it have to do with anything ? The thread title is "Future of the Army Reserve-Discuss" not AF's required to organize a training event.
        It's in reponse to your apparent lack of knowledge in the amount of paperwork and logistics involved in your utopian centralised training. That's all.

        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        And I say there's a problem.
        So what are you going to do about it? I'd really like to know.

        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        Most regular posters here know well who I am and what rank I hold in the organization. Are you trolling for fun or what ?
        Had to look up the meaning of the word trolling. I'm not trolling. I'm saying your arguement is weak due to lack of experience. If I was to hazard a guess at your rank, I'd say you're a RDF corporal just off the Pots.
        As for accuracy, presumably the missile carries MRVs with terminal phase sensors and guidance.

        Comment


        • I too can vouch for Trell on this

          and your wrong as to his rank and experience
          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
          Are full of passionate intensity.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kermit
            I can vouch for Trellheim's expertise in this area.
            Ah, but who can vouch for yours???

            Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
            It's in reponse to your apparent lack of knowledge in the amount of paperwork and logistics involved in your utopian centralised training. That's all.

            So what are you going to do about it? I'd really like to know.

            Had to look up the meaning of the word trolling. I'm not trolling. I'm saying your arguement is weak due to lack of experience. If I was to hazard a guess at your rank, I'd say you're a RDF corporal just off the Pots.
            OK, Firstly, relax please. I know tone is not conveyed well over the internet, but this comes across as condescending.

            Secondly, Why do you have such a problem with the IDEA of centralised training. Trell, didn't say he was gonna implement it, he was just putting forward an Idea for discussion. This is a discussion board after all. True he could be a Cpl, but at least if he is, then he is a thinker, rather than someone who wants to just relive the good old days.

            Thirdly, There is no third thing, but I hate saying Firstly and Secondly without a Thirdly.
            I probably am wrong, sorry about that!!!

            Please PM me to correct me.

            But, not if I state an opinion, only if I state something as truth!!!

            I have bad opinions but I stick by them!!!

            Comment


            • It's in reponse to your apparent lack of knowledge in the amount of paperwork and logistics involved in your utopian centralised training. That's all.
              Let's look at that paperwork since you think it's a problem

              For the camp itself
              1: Whatever unit was organizing it would have to do it in any event if it was noncentralized so it'll have to get done no matter what unit is running it. so can we leave that aside . Also doing it the same way every time leads to optimizations in the process since everyone now knows what's needed rather than farting about with the most two precious resources there are - Time and People.

              In addition economies of scale - no need to staff a Guard or duties [ assumes occurs in occupied post ]
              and you don't have 3 Bn's pissing about all trying to secure a scarce resource like billets

              Secondly :

              The recruit him(or her) self will still have to get the same paperwork...

              So I'm somewhat mystified as to "increased Admin"

              Bam Bam - yes, agreed as to the Personal/Bedspace/Locker admin side of things, I'm just throwing out possibilities but it's extremely difficult to secure accomodation for the numbers needed no matter what size the element is.
              Last edited by trellheim; 22 February 2009, 23:39.
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

              Comment


              • PTI/PTS is a good idea but if the will was there they could be assigned to any RDF camp for the duration it shouldn't just have to be where they want and whats handier for them.
                But it's easier for example to work the system because that (PDFPTI/PTS has many different things to do and it's much easier to get him in the barracks for 90 minutes a day - remember they're a scarce resource
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • trellheim, I agree with centralised recruit training. One of the problems is that, presently, it could not be conducted by the ResBTC. They have enought on their plate and their staff do more - far more - that the integrated without the grat with the cses that they run at the moment. The PDF BTC does not run recruit training.
                  "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    The BTCs are tasked with operating these camps and have the power to detail instructors from across the Brigade
                    I'm sure most units would love that.

                    I agree with centralised training. I've no problem with it. I don't agree with people who pitch ideas and don't back it up. Saying centralised training is needed is all well and good, but whats in the process of obtaining it?
                    As for accuracy, presumably the missile carries MRVs with terminal phase sensors and guidance.

                    Comment


                    • Set up a RTC (recruit training centre) so? Not just for the RDF of course!

                      The idea of a "from scratch" centralised location is good, though. Plenty of accommodation, plenty of squares, plenty of cookhouses, plenty of - free from local interference with usage of pyro - land and plenty of training rooms. Complete with a range (or seven) and stocks of all the types of things recruits might need like aiming rests and maybe even a gym :-o or an obstacle course!

                      But it might just make sense that way....
                      Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                      Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                      Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                      Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                      Comment


                      • In this regard Vickers [ and you know I know all the BTC staff] it doesn't have to be the BTC - but there's no other unit that doesn't recruit itself, and that's the key factor here, avoiding the politics.

                        The instructors would all come from the Bns anyway, and the BTC just provides the framework where you can get away from NIH and/or NIMBYism

                        I'm sure most units would love that.
                        What's not to like ?

                        1: Get rid of the drag of running Recruit and Two-Star courses from the line units... Instantly the line units should be thinking F**King happy day !!! Let's start training , and doing proper 3* training, start building some of those specialized skills needed to operate in the role, e.g. CRC and CBRN and start leveraging some of the key training our PDF units have

                        2: Predictable windows where a proper sized platoon can accumulate rather than a Cpl screaming on a pissing wet/freezing cold square at just two recruits who can't see the Cpl because it's dark .,.. how useful is that for the Cpl { he could be training a full section }

                        3: Predictable standards; that you know that a CIS 3* and an AMC 3* not to mention their Inf and Cav counterpart can all take part in a section attack etc etc

                        4: Training validation: Attach a couple of line PDF NCOs and start feeding across current practice and standards - again, scarce resource applied exactly where needed

                        5: Pipeline - solid predictable pipeline where you can plan for people coming into the organization and build recruiting efforts accordingly.
                        What, on earth, is not to like ?


                        How to obtain it

                        1. ECFCA ( or OC Bde Reserve as he is now ) details BTC { or whoever } with task , timelines and authority to detail instructors and admin staff , tasks OCs of the Bns accordingly.

                        That's how you get it going

                        Note , of course, I'm skipping key logs issues such as obtaining trg accom but that's what we have a Bde logs staff for and when they're told to do something they do it.
                        Last edited by trellheim; 23 February 2009, 00:27.
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                          In this regard Vickers [ and you know I know all the BTC staff] it doesn't have to be the BTC - but there's no other unit that doesn't recruit itself, and that's the key factor here, avoiding the politics.
                          There is Res Bde HQ Ops Cell (but does that avoid the politics)


                          What's not to like ?

                          1: Get rid of the drag of running Recruit and Two-Star courses from the line units... Instantly the line units should be thinking F**King happy day !!! Let's start training , and doing proper 3* training, start building some of those specialized skills needed to operate in the role, e.g. CRC and CBRN and start leveraging some of the key training our PDF units have

                          2: Predictable windows where a proper sized platoon can accumulate rather than a Cpl screaming on a pissing wet/freezing cold square at just two recruits who can't see the Cpl because it's dark .,.. how useful is that for the Cpl { he could be training a full section }

                          3: Predictable standards; that you know that a CIS 3* and an AMC 3* not to mention their Inf and Cav counterpart can all take part in a section attack etc etc

                          4: Training validation: Attach a couple of line PDF NCOs and start feeding across current practice and standards - again, scarce resource applied exactly where needed

                          5: Pipeline - solid predictable pipeline where you can plan for people coming into the organization and build recruiting efforts accordingly.
                          What, on earth, is not to like ?
                          I agree.


                          How to obtain it

                          1. ECFCA ( or OC Bde Reserve as he is now ) details BTC { or whoever } with task , timelines and authority to detail instructors and admin staff , tasks OCs of the Bns accordingly.

                          That's how you get it going

                          Note , of course, I'm skipping key logs issues such as obtaining trg accom but that's what we have a Bde logs staff for and when they're told to do something they do it.
                          Again, I agree but it requires support and commitment from a lot of DF people (PDF and RDF). As you know (but for the benefit of others), in the East an attempt, using a Bn, was tried in the recent past. While it worked to some extent, there were "optouts" but the worst I saw was where one unit was tasked with running the cse another unit who provided an offr and instructors ran a seperate cse in the same location! This certainly supports your arguement that it should be run at Bde level.
                          "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by johnny no stars View Post
                            Set up a RTC (recruit training centre) so? Not just for the RDF of course!

                            The idea of a "from scratch" centralised location is good, though. Plenty of accommodation, plenty of squares, plenty of cookhouses, plenty of - free from local interference with usage of pyro - land and plenty of training rooms. Complete with a range (or seven) and stocks of all the types of things recruits might need like aiming rests and maybe even a gym :-o or an obstacle course!

                            But it might just make sense that way....
                            In an ideal world.........
                            "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by johnny no stars View Post
                              Set up a RTC (recruit training centre) so? Not just for the RDF of course!

                              The idea of a "from scratch" centralised location is good, though. Plenty of accommodation, plenty of squares, plenty of cookhouses, plenty of - free from local interference with usage of pyro - land and plenty of training rooms. Complete with a range (or seven) and stocks of all the types of things recruits might need like aiming rests and maybe even a gym :-o or an obstacle course!

                              But it might just make sense that way....
                              and we could call it Gormanston

                              and that would allow the PDF and the RDF recruit trainers to share resources

                              good idea JNS

                              I knew if I stuck around long enough you would have one
                              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                              Are full of passionate intensity.

                              Comment


                              • I think we can all agree there are major logistical issues including catering, accomodiation & transport.

                                All that is really required is a small group of people to be given responsibility for organising it. One senior officer from Bde to be given responsible for the supervision and task officers & NCOs. PDF training officers & NCOs should be involved as well as affilitated units.

                                1 centralised course in each brigade each year (dates given out min 3/4 months in advance), you can expect 200-300 recruits, so 2 locations may be required.

                                The module 1 should be centralised as well with 2/3 weekends held at unit level. If not certified as having been completed not allowed attend.



                                -------------
                                2* training then starts in a number of modules.
                                Last edited by DeV; 23 February 2009, 12:28.

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