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  1. #3726
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Cheers, just spat crunchy nut cornflakes all over my desk... lets hope the same Arty crews have now learned how to shave/get a haircut, been shown how to put on a uniform and also been issued a copy of the dress regs
    And A7 Discipline

  2. #3727
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    ...and also been issued a copy of the dress regs
    unlike the Infantry - or any of the other assorted rabble - a Gunner knows how to dress without having to be told...
    Last edited by ropebag; 13th May 2013 at 12:00.

  3. #3728
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Oh well in fairness, this was last year I guess, and it wasnt the uniform per se that was the problem, i mean the gunners that IM talking about, well they had actually managed to put the trousers and shirts on the right body parts - even the right way around in some cases - it was probably, oh the 2 foot long grey pony tail and, I dunno, the sideburns and biker beard which are so 1918 right now, that seemed somewhat lacking in de rigeur!

    gunners... the hells angels of the army
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  4. #3729
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    ...gunners... the hells angels of the army
    they sound rather like tramps - are you sure they weren't Loggies or other such lowlife who'd rifled through the stores looking for something to hide their shame?

  5. #3730
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    we had an influx of arty into the glen last year to fire the 120s (i think) and they honestly looked very messy indeed.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  6. #3731
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    we had an influx of arty into the glen last year to fire the 120s (i think) and they honestly looked very messy indeed.
    Some of them recently got "reorged" into infantry, it's going to be entertaining on summercamp.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  7. #3732
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Mine are "sporting firearms
    Have you the bayonet?

    Got to correct you there Murph, it shows effective & non effective service
    Thanks...mine only mentions effective service.
    Just visiting

  8. #3733
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Have you the bayonet?................
    Have one but I don't think it's the one I should have. The rifle is 1944 but the bayonet is a later model
    Last edited by bunny shooter; 13th May 2013 at 17:58.

  9. #3734
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Fadó fadó...

    there was a PA in Cork. who was a biker.

    He had a pony tail which was fine as he managed for many years to conceal it under his cap....until he found himself one day for Prayers.........off cap...hair down to his arse......!
    Just visiting

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  11. #3735
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    they sound rather like tramps - are you sure they weren't Loggies or other such lowlife who'd rifled through the stores looking for something to hide their shame?
    Oi ! Less of that shite...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  12. #3736
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.

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  14. #3737
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.
    Hope you've dug in. You've got incoming

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  16. #3738
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    the problem with all this is that it skirts the issue - the fundamental issue - of what the Reserve is for.

    until its worked out under what military conditions the Reserve would be used, and in what role, its just fannying about with garden furniture on a well known ice-bound peice of early 20th century engineering.

    there's no point incentivising a reserve if you don't have a plan for what you want it to do - the 'incentivise it to do what?' argument - that, to me, is the enormous hole in this whole thing: the reserve does not have a stated (or even unstated) military end result, it just has a Groundhog Day existance where it exists for the sake of existing.

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  18. #3739
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  19. #3740
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Basically, a poor man's version of integration under a different name because we're not allowed to mention that word.
    From where I sit it looks like Integration as it was meant to be. I am on the playground again and we're been given the chance to make it work. So I'm going to try it, not least because of non carborundum illegitemi
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  21. #3741
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    I think that for the single concept to work, you need to use the full 70/30 PDF/RDF balance operationally.

    Unfortunately, the attitude here seems to be that in order to mobilise the 30% RDF component, we must have exhausted our 70% PDF component first. In reality though, if you're relying on the RDF to be the Reserve of last resort, then you don't have an effective Reserve. Having 30% of your single force with no operational exposure and minimal training is near enough useless.

    However, if 70% of the single force was mobilised at a 70/30 balance of PDF/RDF, meaning that the 30% you hold in reserve is a mix of 70/30 PDF/RDF then your force potency will have increased and you do in fact have a single force with a viable Reserve.

    That can't happen without a serious change in mindset and support from the MA, Government and employers. Which would be difficult, but not impossible.

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  23. #3742
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    However, if 70% of the single force was mobilised at a 70/30 balance of PDF/RDF, meaning that the 30% you hold in reserve is a mix of 70/30 PDF/RDF then your force potency will have increased and you do in fact have a single force with a viable Reserve.

    That can't happen without a serious change in mindset and support from the MA, Government and employers
    Employers: never happen. This isn't the USA and even there there's a shitload of problems
    MA : Currently trialling it
    Govt : giving it a go. We'll see what happens.

    BUT
    1. Dog wags tail not the other way round - i.e. for it to be any use we have to serve Govt aims
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  24. #3743
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    From where I sit it looks like Integration as it was meant to be. I am on the playground again and we're been given the chance to make it work. So I'm going to try it, not least because of non carborundum illegitemi
    I'll say this Trell, 90% of the opposition I've encountered to this working has been from reservists. Many of them 'senior'.

    The only PDF that think about us every day are the former Cadre, the others are getting their first taste and the book on that isn't written yet. The two big problems are attendance and the face of leadership that's put out there.

    The organisation needs a major change in ethos, and the people in a position to push that aren't interested in upsetting their own cosy nests.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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  26. #3744
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The organisation needs a major change in ethos, and the people in a position to push that aren't interested in upsetting their own cosy nests
    Many have been sidelined or haven't understood what is actually happening
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  27. #3745
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    I think that for the single concept to work, you need to use the full 70/30 PDF/RDF balance operationally.
    By the way, I should have added that it would take years to get the RDF up to that capability. I'm not saying that's what the single force should look like this year or next.

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  29. #3746
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come-quickly View Post
    90% of the opposition I've encountered to this working has been from reservists. Many of them 'senior'.

    The two big problems are attendance and the face of leadership that's put out there.

    The people in a position to push that aren't interested in upsetting their own cosy nests.
    Right there, those three issues... they are THEE biggest problems that we will encounter.

    The people pushing back the hardest, are quite frankly the people who dont matter.

    Caveat: There are SOME seniors, ranked Sgt and above who DO give a sh*t, im lucky to be in a unit of such people, as far as I can tell from my brief assignment with them...

    However, there are a larger group at play at higher ranks than us mere peasants, they are MOSTLY surplus to requirements, they hold some power even still, EVEN in an SWA position.
    they dont want to change,
    they look at the org through rose tinted glasses
    and they will not and CAN not accept, adapt to or facilitate the REQUIRED CHANGES!

    They are holding up recruitment and they are acting contrary to the basic reorg mission, they should be told to go on their ticket, because if they arent part of the solution, then they are part of the problem....
    Last edited by morpheus; 14th May 2013 at 13:15.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  31. #3747
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The way to get an effective reserve is not to demoralise it will no comms or decisions!

    No consultation with their representatives.
    Rushing through decisions and timelines.
    Banning/cutting back training when you need the people there to brief them.
    Not giving detailed information.
    Getting someone to do duties for free (not even mileage) when the person beside them is getting paid their basic pay plus an allowance and a paid day off. With only a rumour that it will count hour for hour.
    Not using the reserve for exercises, let alone duties. VFM changed that.
    A few years ago the MA said reservists weren't trained to do duties, the VFM changed that.


    The PDF also have to adapt, nothing to do with dropping standards of anything! Eg 7 day RDF working week

    The biggest problem is communications!!!

    Crystal ball time:
    Very few people will be able to do FTT do to lack of notice and will be discharged as a result
    People will turn up to do a 7 day and find it is 5 days, will only be paid for 5 and will be discharged
    People will be discharged when as far as they were concerned they weren't members
    There will not be any opportunities for voluntary unpaid and they will be discharged

    It will all be the reservists fault cause they didn't turn up!

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  33. #3748
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Right there, those three issues... they are THEE biggest problems that we will encounter.

    The people pushing back the hardest, are quite frankly the people who dont matter.

    Caveat: There are SOME seniors, ranked Sgt and above who DO give a sh*t, im lucky to be in a unit of such people, as far as I can tell from my brief assignment with them...

    However, there are a larger group at play at higher ranks than us mere peasants, they are MOSTLY surplus to requirements, they hold some power even still, EVEN in an SWA position.
    they dont want to change,
    they look at the org through rose tinted glasses
    and they will not and CAN not accept, adapt to or facilitate the REQUIRED CHANGES!

    They are holding up recruitment and they are acting contrary to the basic reorg mission, they should be told to go on their ticket, because if they arent part of the solution, then they are part of the problem....
    There was never supposed to be recruitment in 2013, read the KPIs

  34. #3749
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    well i see very limited recruitment when there is zero incentive for those serving without a position, to leave the organisation.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  35. #3750
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    At local level, the Reorg is working okay. PDF units seem open to receiving Reservists, particularly as we offer potential cost effective additional man power resources for Exs, who above all else, want to be there.

    The issue is the design of the RDF post implementation. If you want a part time Reserve component of the single force that can guarantee service delivery you have to pay them, set and enforce the standards, engage with the employers and legislate to ease mobilisation. Demanding volunteers is a failed concept from the off.

    After that, you'll have the capability to improve the output of the DF, increasing operational exposure to both Regular and Reserve, and with more people working their way through the system, it further enables the fluidity of promotions and career development. It's win/win really.

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