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  1. #3751
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    well i see very limited recruitment when there is zero incentive for those serving without a position, to leave the organisation.
    Except come January, if they haven't done the minimum they will be discharged. No non effective list any more

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    At local level, the Reorg is working okay. PDF units seem open to receiving Reservists, particularly as we offer potential cost effective additional man power resources for Exs, who above all else, want to be there. .
    In your unit (have you been RO'ed yet cause if you haven't you aren't a member of any unit?!)!

    Unit Ex's are mid week, not everyone is available. Maybe unit ex's could sometimes start on Friday and end Sunday.

    Wait till PDF privates liking loosing out on SDA so reservists who are doing it for nothing.

    There seem to be plenty of active people who haven't been notified or are SWA.

  2. #3752
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Wait till PDF privates liking loosing out on SDA so reservists who are doing it for nothing.
    Dev, it's getting painful. Please proofread your posts. Seriously.

  3. #3753
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    Well, come January I am out on my ear it seems!! Not much hope of me getting time off work to do a camp before mid September.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  4. #3754
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.
    Are you feeling ok? Want me to call a doctor?

  5. #3755
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Dev, it's getting painful. Please proofread your posts. Seriously.
    If he read them he might need to admit they were 99% nonsense. Oh Lordy, Please no!
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  6. #3756
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    From what I am hearing the tea drinkers have won the day again.In one unit I know of Officers who had not been seen in years have been given appointments and active lads especially ones who went integrated are SWA.Cue the SWA lads been tasked with running training by their Coy comdrs because the "real" Pl Comd hasn't/cant/wont show up then a week or two into the training programme said "real" Pl comd shows up and takes away "his" troops for more important training such as orienteering when they were training for an ex or TOET's.
    Also the old ways of doing things in some Coys have won out.One Coy I know of only cares about shooting teams.Cue everybody in the unit not on the team being used as butt party,security or pot wollopers while all the ammo for the unit is allocated to the shooting team.
    Seriously that's a joke.
    I also heard of one coy where the Coy Comd "replaced" all the people who had been appointed I.E Pln Comds,Coy Sgt etc with people from his old unit.So what would have been a mixture of faces and an all new command structure became a continuation of an old unit just under a different name. WTF are these people playing at????
    People in authority within the RDF need to wake up.The days of a uniformed shooting and orienteering club are GONE!! Unless ALL the troops are able to play ball and know their shit then the whole unit will suffer.Elitism should be a thing of the past.Get EVERYBODY back to basics an up to PDF TOET standard(not the "we do it different in my unit" way) on ALL Pln weapons.Work on passing the IT's and then make sure everybody can navigate,use a radio and put on a field dressing.Then you have solid base to build on.Unless that happens the RDF is F****D!
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  8. #3757
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Surely the Bn Comd and BSM are more than slightly concerned about a Coy Commander going all Heart of Darkness and doing his own thing completely? Where's the PDF oversight?

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  10. #3758
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    meanwhile some are still in the wilderness........knowing they will be SWA but wondering where they will be SWA in. No unit=no training=no arps= camp etc and at years end, out the door.

    Hopefully there will be news this week, it's not for the want of trying though to be fair.

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  12. #3759
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    PDF TOET standard?
    you mean as per steyr manual?
    Which is the way we conducted the TOET tests recently which saw almost everyone pass first time and those who didnt will retest this week having undergone "refresher" training... and it will be as per manual.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  14. #3760
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Same ! Darn it . Ha... Shooting teams..... there's a full retard meme there somewhere. Orienteering's a bit different but its outside core training hours and shouldn't impact calendared training time ( Lordy I have currriculum 15 feet long to think about and this BS puts its head up )

    If anyone's looking for me I'll be in the bit of the RDF marked "real-world".
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

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  15. #3761
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.
    ye get rid of all that how much will the pdf lads be on a week then
    that would really make us want to work with you guys

  16. #3762
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Surely the Bn Comd and BSM are more than slightly concerned about a Coy Commander going all Heart of Darkness and doing his own thing completely? Where's the PDF oversight?
    Overseas!!!.Seriously.All this happened whilst the Bn Comd and his BSM were formed up for overseas IE no longer with their parent unit so they probably have no idea what was going on and now it's done.

    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    PDF TOET standard?
    you mean as per steyr manual?
    Which is the way we conducted the TOET tests recently which saw almost everyone pass first time and those who didnt will retest this week having undergone "refresher" training... and it will be as per manual.
    Great stuff!!Exactly as it should be.I refered to the "PDF standard" IE the manual standard as form experience alot of the RDF units did it "Their" way IE no mag filling under time pressure,load and unload not done under time pressure or while wearing CEFO and IA drills unheard of.Good to see some units doing it as per.Well done.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  17. #3763
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    From what I am hearing the tea drinkers have won the day again.In one unit I know of Officers who had not been seen in years have been given appointments and active lads especially ones who went integrated are SWA.Cue the SWA lads been tasked with running training by their Coy comdrs because the "real" Pl Comd hasn't/cant/wont show up then a week or two into the training programme said "real" Pl comd shows up and takes away "his" troops for more important training such as orienteering when they were training for an ex or TOET's.
    Also the old ways of doing things in some Coys have won out.One Coy I know of only cares about shooting teams.Cue everybody in the unit not on the team being used as butt party,security or pot wollopers while all the ammo for the unit is allocated to the shooting team.
    Seriously that's a joke.
    I also heard of one coy where the Coy Comd "replaced" all the people who had been appointed I.E Pln Comds,Coy Sgt etc with people from his old unit.So what would have been a mixture of faces and an all new command structure became a continuation of an old unit just under a different name. WTF are these people playing at????
    People in authority within the RDF need to wake up.The days of a uniformed shooting and orienteering club are GONE!! Unless ALL the troops are able to play ball and know their shit then the whole unit will suffer.Elitism should be a thing of the past.Get EVERYBODY back to basics an up to PDF TOET standard(not the "we do it different in my unit" way) on ALL Pln weapons.Work on passing the IT's and then make sure everybody can navigate,use a radio and put on a field dressing.Then you have solid base to build on.Unless that happens the RDF is F****D!
    For the most part i do agree with you, but let all of those requirements be met with equipment that is of sufficient standard to be trained on; For this part both our black beret and green beret colleagues have a part to play here; Forget the Colour of the Cap Badge for a minute.

    Training equipment needs to be up to spec, there needs to be allocations aswell; The ye olde "The Battlegroup / Battalion / [INSERT some EX HERE]" has your GPMG's etc... this week so your training plan is out the window.... Sorry lads back to cleaning the stores again... routine isnt going to cut it. Make sure the stuff isnt U/S is a big deal and would enable alot for some units. [In some cases like ours, U/S is a training point]

    I will make one point, since the reorg (i remained as is) i am excited at all the conversations and training happening on my end there is some real good people come into contact with us (the RDF Element).

    I think though theres a need to stop pumping up the storys of a drinking summer camp in the RDF; When challenged alot of people fall to the "I heard from Johnny who heard from his mothers, brothers, sons, daughters, nephews, aunt's uncle who seen a fella do x y and z in the 70ies...."

    Cant we all get along ? In most cases alot of us RDF'ers look up to the fella's who have done their tour in the leb, some know the fellas who came back but are still in the battle. Give the RDF a proper first step unbiased and uninterrupted and we will go miles.
    Squad look this way, i will give a full and complete demonstration on how to post.
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  19. #3764
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    From what I am hearing the tea drinkers have won the day again.In one unit I know of Officers who had not been seen in years have been given appointments and active lads especially ones who went integrated are SWA.Cue the SWA lads been tasked with running training by their Coy comdrs because the "real" Pl Comd hasn't/cant/wont show up then a week or two into the training programme said "real" Pl comd shows up and takes away "his" troops for more important training such as orienteering when they were training for an ex or TOET's.
    Also the old ways of doing things in some Coys have won out.One Coy I know of only cares about shooting teams.Cue everybody in the unit not on the team being used as butt party,security or pot wollopers while all the ammo for the unit is allocated to the shooting team.
    Seriously that's a joke.
    I also heard of one coy where the Coy Comd "replaced" all the people who had been appointed I.E Pln Comds,Coy Sgt etc with people from his old unit.So what would have been a mixture of faces and an all new command structure became a continuation of an old unit just under a different name. WTF are these people playing at????
    People in authority within the RDF need to wake up.The days of a uniformed shooting and orienteering club are GONE!! Unless ALL the troops are able to play ball and know their shit then the whole unit will suffer.Elitism should be a thing of the past.Get EVERYBODY back to basics an up to PDF TOET standard(not the "we do it different in my unit" way) on ALL Pln weapons.Work on passing the IT's and then make sure everybody can navigate,use a radio and put on a field dressing.Then you have solid base to build on.Unless that happens the RDF is F****D!
    Where is the unit CO, Adjt, BSM and Bde HLIG? Edit - just saw your reply 2IC then.

    Sure there will be no RDF shooting competition next year!
    Last edited by DeV; 14th May 2013 at 18:28.

  20. #3765
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Sure there will be no RDF shooting competition next year!
    There is apparently going to be some sort of "skills competition". I believe there is a PDF one currently.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  21. #3766
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    From what I am hearing the tea drinkers have won the day again.In one unit I know of Officers who had not been seen in years have been given appointments and active lads especially ones who went integrated are SWA.Cue the SWA lads been tasked with running training by their Coy comdrs because the "real" Pl Comd hasn't/cant/wont show up then a week or two into the training programme said "real" Pl comd shows up and takes away "his" troops for more important training such as orienteering when they were training for an ex or TOET's.
    Also the old ways of doing things in some Coys have won out.One Coy I know of only cares about shooting teams.Cue everybody in the unit not on the team being used as butt party,security or pot wollopers while all the ammo for the unit is allocated to the shooting team.
    Seriously that's a joke.
    I also heard of one coy where the Coy Comd "replaced" all the people who had been appointed I.E Pln Comds,Coy Sgt etc with people from his old unit.So what would have been a mixture of faces and an all new command structure became a continuation of an old unit just under a different name. WTF are these people playing at????
    People in authority within the RDF need to wake up.The days of a uniformed shooting and orienteering club are GONE!! Unless ALL the troops are able to play ball and know their shit then the whole unit will suffer.Elitism should be a thing of the past.Get EVERYBODY back to basics an up to PDF TOET standard(not the "we do it different in my unit" way) on ALL Pln weapons.Work on passing the IT's and then make sure everybody can navigate,use a radio and put on a field dressing.Then you have solid base to build on.Unless that happens the RDF is F****D!
    Is there still even reserve competitions? Cos they won't get a look in at the PDF ones.

    The end result will be they, not the Minister, or the DoD, or the PDF, will kill the last remnants of the RDF at the source. The 3 year review will happen, and everyone will agree it was a clusterfcuk, and the funding that was once for the Reserve will go to buy extra locker space for the PDF who will by now be meeting themselves coming off duty.

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  23. #3767
    the last mohican slapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Is there still even reserve competitions? Cos they won't get a look in at the PDF ones.

    The end result will be they, not the Minister, or the DoD, or the PDF, will kill the last remnants of the RDF at the source. The 3 year review will happen, and everyone will agree it was a clusterfcuk, and the funding that was once for the Reserve will go to buy extra locker space for the PDF who will by now be meeting themselves coming off duty.
    and thats provided that curragh ,mckee ,athlone and haulbowline arent the only barracks left
    who threw the smoke in the van

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  25. #3768
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    ...that would really make us want to work with you guys
    i'm not sure how long you've been around an Army, but one of the first things almost everybody notices about Armies is that 'likes', 'wants' and 'dislikes' play almost no part whatsoever in the day-to-day running of the place.

    if regulars don't want to work with reservists the Army has a couple off 'persauders' it can use to talk them round - they are called Courts Martial and unemployment.

  26. #3769
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    there is more of one way to skin a cat if pdf do not want to work with the rdf
    i myself dont mind but my unit dont work or have a rdf unit
    i was replying to devs comment on cutting all the pdf,s money.. go back and look
    and i am round for a fair few yrs how would the army court martial a lad who does not want to or give him his ticket
    they can detail lads etc but that would be a disaster doomed to fail
    again to go back to post from a few weeks ago if the rdf goes on about the pdf,s money this is over before it starts
    Last edited by kaiser; 14th May 2013 at 20:14.

  27. #3770
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    It's almost as if Dev's attitude is harmful...
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  28. #3771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come-quickly View Post
    It's almost as if Dev's attitude is harmful...
    it might be as this attack on pay etc comes around every couple of weeks and will only in my honest opinion cause s**t

  29. #3772
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Here's an idea for the single force concept, get rid of SDA, MSA, ATCP & ATCA allowances, plus a 10% basic pay cut for the PDF.

    Other countries incentivise reservists the DF does the opposite.
    Stop talking such pure and utter bollocks.

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  31. #3773
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    i'm not sure how long you've been around an Army, but one of the first things almost everybody notices about Armies is that 'likes', 'wants' and 'dislikes' play almost no part whatsoever in the day-to-day running of the place.

    if regulars don't want to work with reservists the Army has a couple off 'persauders' it can use to talk them round - they are called Courts Martial and unemployment.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    there is more of one way to skin a cat if pdf do not want to work with the rdf
    i myself dont mind but my unit dont work or have a rdf unit
    i was replying to devs comment on cutting all the pdf,s money.. go back and look
    and i am round for a fair few yrs how would the army court martial a lad who does not want to or give him his ticket
    they can detail lads etc but that would be a disaster doomed to fail
    again to go back to post from a few weeks ago if the rdf goes on about the pdf,s money this is over before it starts
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    it might be as this attack on pay etc comes around every couple of weeks and will only in my honest opinion cause s**t
    I'm not willing this to fail, far from it. I believe it has been set up to fail.

    Say for example, the BSM puts the details up on the notice board. That is only any use if you are there to ready it before the time you are suppose to report for duty, if you have the correct kit and most importantly if you are available.

    For far too long the FCA/RDF has been looked down on and this will create enemies in some parts.

    My belief is that the increased grat should have been linked to medicals & ITs (assuming the enablers were inplace) and x amount of unpaid duties because at least you were providing a return for investment.

    The DOD/MA didn't recognise that RDF personnel doing duties on camp should get SDA because they were "training" mandays. They actually got rid of the security mandays a few years ago, in order to prevent reservists doing duties. The last time I heard of RDF personnel doing duties in my nearest barracks was about 10 years ago. There was even a RDF syllabus developed for security duties!

    I am seriously the only one here that thinks, equal pay for equal work?

    At least in the past you got gratuity to go a very small way to help offset the costs of being a reservist. No one forced us to join we volunteered (as did every member of the PDF). If you have access to it look at the amount of RDF SO appointment, some at the same rank as the unit OCs. That is where grat money went.

    I wander what James Connolly would think of this?
    Last edited by DeV; 14th May 2013 at 20:55.

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  33. #3774
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    We had situations in the last few years where reservists volunteered to help with ATCA tasks without looking for any reward and were turned away because they weren't needed.

    Is an extra pair of hands when for example shoveling snow or filling sandbags a bad thing? Does it require training?

    We weren't allowed do it in the past.

    Now we have to do it to justify our existance, and if you don't do the necessary ATCA / duties (VFM recommened unarmed) / etc etc we will be discharged!

    What if there is no snow, you aren't available the day your detailed for a duty etc etc

  34. #3775
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunny shooter View Post
    The Enfield is as it was issued The others were never military firearms
    Would not the cz750 be also classed as a mil/le version of a sporting rifle(550).

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