The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

[DeV]

You would be surprised, what can be arranged if the desire is there.

For example, you need to borrow extra support weapons for a weekend, understandably the PDF may not want to loose access to them for a week because a reservist can only get in on Tuesdays to get and return them.

[ropebag]

...Can any unit that are not properly trained or can't train?...

a unit that can't train is binning itself, it needs no help from anyone else.

you can't just appoint an RDF units Officer/SNCO team on the basis of who can nip down to the local PDF barracks for a chat, a brew and a scrounge, commanding an Infantry Coy is just a little bit more complicated than that. if the management team of a reserve unit can't, because of the nature/location of their work - the one that pays their mortgage and puts food in their childrens mouths - have effective/productive communication with their sponsoring PDF unit, and there is no full-time, or at least part-time, weekday, administrative/logistc support to that RDF unit, then that RDF unit will wither on the vine.

just because some units can manage it - while particular individuals have particular working patterns - does not mean that it is a system that you can build a useful, coherant, evenly trained reserve formation around.

[The Prisoner]

But what would i know.

Manys a true word was spoken in jest.

[DeV]

+1 ropebag, while it is necessary sometimes and reorg such as this, will need the support of key RDF appointment holders but they will need support from PDF personnel as well.

[Saab]

Yes Dev they will need support.
But the more capable the reserve the less support they need.
IF the support is not there at local level then it should be there at a higher level.

There is a chain of command or does that not actually work anymore.

Just because soom units can manage it shows that it can be done. Why can't it be built on?
You bring together a team that can manage the running of the unit.
Maybe its time to stop promoting people because they are next in line or they look good.
If you need a Captain do do 1 day a week in the bks then the person appointed should be able to do it.

Or we could just sit on the excuse band wagon.
Whinge that our cadre do nothing but we can do nothing without cadre.

[ropebag]

...will need the support of key RDF appointment holders but they will need support from PDF personnel as well.

absolutely - it means regulars visting reserve units on parade nights and a weekends, it means regulars being at the training areas when the reservists are there, it means regular Officers/SNCO's being in constant email/phone contact with their reserve counterparts when its convenient/possible for the reservists, and if neccesary acting as gofers and scroungers on their behalf.

sometimes it means the reservist has to put themselves out - like attending a range conference on a weekday, or perhaps attending the regular unit for a leadership team meeting (yes, we've got bollocks speak as well...) when everyone else is there, but it is the job of the regular to make that as easy as possible, with as much notice as possible, and making it at the begining or end of the day so the reservist can take the minimum time off without screwing everything up at work.

the return is that the reservist must work his tits off whenever he gets a training opportunity, he must be as fit as he can possibly be, he needs to be sufficiently organised so that his kit is ready when he gets to the training area at 11pm on a friday night, and he has to do as much home learning as his family and work life can cope with.

[ropebag]

...If you need a Captain do do 1 day a week in the bks then the person appointed should be able to do it...

i'm sorry, are you really suggesting that the DF should decide who are the best people to run a Mortar Pln, or command an Infantry Coy on the basis of whether they are unemployed for 1 day a week?

[DeV]

I don't this agree but I also know what it is like taking time off job to attend something that is cancelled at the drop of a hat with no notice!!

What if no RDF personnel are available to attend a meeting ?

There needs to be a backup plan!

Official procedures need to take this into account

[The Prisoner]

It is simply not possible to run the RDF, to any credible standard, without a dedicated PDF input ie cadre or some other name or whatever. And that is going to have a cost. The powers that be know this.

TD refers to a certain individual. I know who TD is referring to, I know that person's job, work pattern/hours, personal committments, etc. Now that person has the opportunity and the interest and committment to do various tasks behind the scenes. Great for us. But if you work for free you'll always be busy.

You cannot run the RDF, and hope to maintain it not to mention bringing it forward, without a financial committment. It is simply not possible. To suggest anything else is not facing reality. Offhand, and I stress offhand, I can't think of any large, nationwide volunteer organisation that does not have full time administrative staff.

And that's where the problem lies. The cost of administering the RDF. Now in my line of work you never go anywhere with a problem unless you have a solution. Otherwise you run the risk of getting a solution you don't want. You go to the meeting with the problem in one hand and the solution in the other.

So here's one: with the concentration of the PDF into a smaller number of locations consideration should be given to creating posts that deal with barrack admin and RDF admin. The PDF units do there own admin and concentrate soley on the core job. The new posts would have a wide remit eg barrack upkeep & maintenace, accounting, RDF admin. Now some will be on straight away and say that these posts already exist, and I'm sure they do in some format. But what I'm saying is make RDF admin part of the remit. A poster was on earlier about the number of days that would be lost to a PDF unit by having their personal administer the sister RDF unit. So, redraft some of the job specifications. I'm sure most would agree that a cadre post is not a full-time, 9.00 to 16.30, five days a week, 52 weeks a year. Some form of job share may work. Restrictions could be put on the times when RDF personal could contact the PDF eg two days a week or or only during certain hours so as to ensure they can deal with other parts of the job.

If you try to administer the RDF at no cost by relying on members' goodwill it will cease to function within 2 to 3 years.

[Saab]

absolutely - it means regulars ..................

So its the PDF that run the RDF then?
So all the whinging that one hears that the cadre does SFA is total Bollocks then.
I am so glad we cleared that up.
I suppose TD was tellong porkies about his unit and as for that story about 1st Cav............

i'm sorry, are you really suggesting that the DF should decide who are the best people to run a Mortar Pln, or command an Infantry Coy on the basis of whether they are unemployed for 1 day a week?

You see thats just it. Why should the DF care?
On more than one occasion people have said the RDF is at the bottom of the pile.
So then IF the best man to run a Pl is the guy who can take a day off then so be it.
The DF know what they want.
But why does it have to be the person running the unit. We have a cadre CQ. No one else.Oh I am sure there is an officer some where. NOw according to you he runs our unit. So why bother have a CS, RDF CQ, or any other rank above sgt?

What if no RDF personnel are available to attend a meeting ?

What if your cadre are on duty and can't attend meetings?
Its the same arguement.

It is simply not possible to run the RDF,

Running the RDF and running a unit are two different things.

TD refers to a certain individual. ..........rest and committment to do various tasks behind the scenes. ............But if you work for free you'll always be busy.

No doubt.

You cannot run ............ without a financial committment. It is simply not possible. To suggest anything else is not facing reality.

I can't go back to find it but didn't you not write some time ago that there is no commitment to the RDF?
That the RDF is at the bottom of the heap when it comes to any considerations.

I can't think of any large, nationwide volunteer organisation that does not have full time administrative staff.

At national level, most have professionals.
But at local level?
I did say there was a difference between running units and running an organisation.
Look at the example rope bag came up with. He needs cadre to run a mortar platoon.

So if yo uwant to compare then whats the ratio of professionals to active volunteers?
Is it anything like that high in the CD?

Your "solution" looks at the big picture. Which is fair enough. You are not suggesting that cadre be at every dog and pony show.

[Bam Bam]

Don't the TA have full time members that carry out unit admin? Not regular army lads, but full time and paid members of the reserve.

Couldn't the same be possibe here?

[The Prisoner]

Running the RDF and running a unit are two different things.

Can you expand on your position?
My argument is that both need to be run, led, managed, whatever term you want to use. It's not going to run itself. So if your position is that the RDF will run on goodwll over the medium term and into the long term, off you go. The novelty factor will wear off quickly enough.

I can't go back to find it but didn't you not write some time ago that there is no commitment to the RDF?
That the RDF is at the bottom of the heap when it comes to any considerations.

Yes, on more that one occassion and I'm not retracting it now either. Can you explain what relevance this has to the debate on this thread?
My position, as quoted above and as evidenced in numerous posts, is that the DoD/AHQ have no interest in the RDF. Other than the RDF and the FCA were very handy for appointments. Look at all the Cmdt. positions in the old days = rank, salary, gratuity, pension. Then you had Col. and Lt. Col positions in each Bde/Command and then you had another layer above that again. A very nice arrangement indeed. But this does not detract from my argument here, which is, it costs money and associated resources to run the individual RDF units and the overall RDF structure. And further, my argument is that the RDF at both unit level and overall level cannot be run on goodwill alone.

Now, for the sake of the argument I'll suppose that you are in the private sector on a weekly wage. Please correct if necessary. How much tolerance will your employer extend to RDF emails coming into and out of your place of employment, phone calls in and out, photocopying, printing, heading off to the local barracks/location on RDF business to chase some PDF head for whatever?

[ropebag]

...He needs cadre to run a mortar platoon...

i'd like to apologise to members of the board who've been unfortunate enough to read this thread - i have, to my shame, MOD EDIT: Insulting other board members is against forum rules,no matter how much they frustrate you.Only warning.Play the ball not the man.


, he might begin to understand that that is not what i have said at all.

fortunately, everyone else seems to have got it - regardless of whether they agree with my views or not.

[Truck Driver]

Again to reiterate what I said before, we are extremely lucky to have a couple of people whose jobs have flexibility enough that they can get into Bks during the week, if required,
to chase up stuff

But, not every unit has this luxury, and as The Prisoner was saying, we need some kind of more formalised arrangement, for when Cadre numbers are reduced

Will be interesting to see what the running cost of the RDF is in the Defence Vote, when that DOES happen, as Cadre pay (still cannot understand why) is lumped in with this cost...

[The Prisoner]

Saab, I don't doubt your committment and enthusiasm to the RDF and your desire to see it improve and be part of this improvement. I was there myself, along time ago.

Now I may well be wrong here but I am of the opinion that you are a bit short on years of service, thus leading to a bit of inexperience. There are people on this forum with years of experience, both military and civilian. As I've posted before, experience will always win out.

The cold wind of the recession is making its way into hidiholes of the RDF and the Gov. are desparately looking for savings. The powers that be have no interest in the RDF, except for what they can get out it, as alluded to earlier. So they are going to offer it up and anything else they can find to save their kingdom. Nothing wrong with that, it goes on everywhere.

So they will just let it wither away by stalling recruitment and running down the cadre numbers, in the full knowledge that the RDF will slowly die but no finger of blame can be directly be pointed, either at themselves or more importantly their political masters. They know that the RDF can't be administered for free but if somebody is willing to do it for free they will let them at it, safe in the knowledge that with enough suttle obsticles they will wither away as well. Sad but true.