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The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

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  • Worse for who?

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    • Originally posted by apod View Post
      Jesus mate get over it.It's gone.I will lose six days leave and see all my allowances cut by 10% If CP2 gets voted in.It sucks but the alternative is worse.Same situation with ye.Swing up the arms and get on with it!!!
      Indeed, you are gonna get buggered anyway, it would be nicer for everyone if you brought your own Vaseline.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • At least CP3 will only bugger the PDF as all the RDF will have packed it in by then!
        Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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        • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
          At least CP3 will only bugger the PDF as all the RDF will have packed it in by then!
          Nah.The money we will save after the RDF gets wadied will prevent that
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          • Originally posted by apod View Post
            Nah.The money we will save after the RDF gets wadied will prevent that
            Hahahaha

            The department of finance doesn't work that way.
            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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            • Originally posted by apod View Post
              Nah.The money we will save after the RDF gets wadied will prevent that
              You mean cadre wages and allowances!?

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              • You have already spent it.

                The cut backs post McCarthy cut the RDF budget by 2 thirds - approx €7m used
                The PDF Re-org and VFM got rid of most of the cadre - approx €18m used
                The VFM got rid of grat and most of the grant in aid fund - approx €1.3m used

                There is approximately €3m left in the RDF budget, so if Finance require a bigger cut than that then you are ****ed

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                • The future of the PDF depends on the Green and subsequent White Papers

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                  • The future of the PDF depends on the Green
                    No. Well, yes, in the larger sense of nato-ish alliances and so on.
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SwiftandSure
                      Meanwhile, the company's competitors are outperforming them, opting for more outsourced business models in an effort to reduce capital spending and staffing costs without affecting customer service or breaching SLAs, and continuing to make profits.
                      Ah yes so to put this back into the Public sector/ DF model

                      The Politicians, Senior Civil Servants and Senior Military Officials look at the guys and decide
                      • Sweeping the floor and say we can bring in a circus with trained monkeys to do this at a fraction of the cost.
                      • Answering phones - modern technology we can get all phone routed through a call centre in India at quater the cost.
                      • Clerical work - all can be done by FAS trainees
                      • Maintaining equipment, vehicles, weapons can be done by a Polish service company at a fraction of the cost.
                      • UN mandate..................

                      Great all we need is Senior Officers and their drivers.
                      No wait the drivers can be out sourced also!!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SwiftandSure
                        I don't disagree with you Paul and thanks for a good post.

                        I suppose my point is that the overall responsibility for the training, standards, and force effectiveness for the RDF lies with the MA via the PDF cadre.

                        The RDF was failed by the MA, and punished in the VFM because of it, without the MA taking an appropriate portion of the blame. If the reorg is managed correctly, (T&Cs of service aside for a minute) there is absolutely no reason the RDF could not be brought in line with the international comparators on both an operational and training level.

                        The value of Reservists was completely misrepresented in the VFM. If Shatter was serious about a single force concept, he would have assessed the VFM of the "single force" in it's entirety. Only then would the underutilisation of the Reserve have been seen as a mismanagement of State resources by the MA, because not getting the optimal VFM out of 30% of the single force manpower that costs less than 1% of the defence budget is just lunacy. Especially considering the shining examples of Total Force concepts among our international comparators.


                        The RDF was set up for failure from the start, but it was set up for failure not by the MA or the PDF Cadre, but by itself and in particular its leadership

                        As I said, the FCA was actually within its limits quite a good force that actually filled a strategic role during the cold war, and had its moment of glory in 1969. While the thoughts of local security troops with lee Enfields Brens and Gustav’s seemed slightly ridiculous now, it was actually quite normal up to the end of the cold war, and countries such as Finland had units equipped with similar type of equipment

                        Where things went wrong in my opinion is with the change over to the RDF and the old FCA idea of a unit in every village was kept on and the parallel “three brigades”, instead of biting the bullet and going to an all infantry force like the T.A. But the people who fought hardest to keep the old system and used their political clout to do so was the RDFRA, who wanted no change, and got what they wanted from their political allies. And being a cadre was a cushy number with good expenses, so there was no opposition from elements of the PDF, and anyway the country was awash with money, and at the time there was no need for change in any of the public services. That’s the way politics work and there are no different here then they are anyplace else.

                        But the problem with the RDF is training, VFM identifies that and seeks to address it. I read a very good article a few months ago about the sophistication of infantry weapons, and the growing skills needed by the infantry soldier. Basically it compared a british section from 1982 and the Falkands and an infantry section from today in Afghanistan and how terms of fire power, communications, optics the 2013 section is so far ahead of the 1982 section. The leadership skills needed by a section commander, not to mention the fitness levels needed by the individuals within the section to carry all the new kit is also vastly different. And its true, the PDF is getting better trained and equipped as we speak and doctirne is continually been renewed, and compares quite well with similar sized European armies. But the RDF is still stuck in 1982 standards, to put it kindly.


                        Because you cannot get away from the fact that this capability gap between Reservist and regular is widening every day and is never going to be gapped because its a gap being driven by modern technology. It’s a simple fact that you simply cannot train to the level needed as a modern infantry soldier on a part time basis, and its impossible to do so in a village hall in the middle of no where without access to modern weaponry. The PDF have worked this out, the RDF and in particular RDFRA need to in my opinion wake up and grow up.

                        Because there is no point in moaning about cost efectiveness, what happens in other countries, employment protection, recognising civilian skills and serving overseas without recognising this capability gap.

                        VFM represents the best opportunity the RDF have been given to become an effective force offered in my life time. I personally think getting rid of the grat and putting all the money into training days is the right way to go, its pushing the money to be those who want to train and will maintain fitness, and are going to be some use, than maintaining a drinking club/Airsoft club thatseriously suggested marching on the dail in uniform. And i think the RDFRA will **** it up by their inabilirty to change
                        Last edited by paul g; 5 March 2013, 15:40. Reason: crap typing as usual

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                        • Modern technology? I'm not sure if you've noticed but many of us use "modern technology" in our day jobs to a lot higher a level than PDF ORs in an Infantry unit. The PDF is by in large a light infantry force equipped to 1990s standards not NASA.

                          I personally think getting rid of the grat and putting all the money into training days is the right way to go
                          Except it is not being put into training days, the Grat was to compensate for all the unpaid days and nights during the year, now we get nothing.

                          its pushing the money to be those who want to train and will maintain fitness, and are going to be some use

                          If the DF wanted that they could simply bring in ITs this year, or in any of the previous 5 years. Many of us still left in the RDF would love to see all the fatties and social club kicked out after failing ITs but it still wont happen.
                          If ITs were brought in the money that would have been wasted on the Fatties could be used to upskill the remaining 50%, however instead the MA in their infinite wisdom decided to keep the fatties, bin grat and still pay the fatties to hang around for another year.
                          Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                          • Modern technology? I'm not sure if you've noticed but many of us use "modern technology" in our day jobs to a lot higher a level than PDF ORs in an Infantry unit. The PDF is by in large a light infantry force equipped to 1990s standards not NASA
                            F*k sake settle down. That's not really correct. No we don't have Global Hawk or Reapers but neither do a lot of countries. Look at the debate going on in the Medical thread/Soldier 2010. Modern tech, for example, is being able to use CATs effectively in a stress/battle situation... which like it or not most of us RDF do fkall training in and is badly needed for interop. Yer average RDF man hates the sight of a manpack SINCGARs and it's not the weight he doesn't like its' having to actually use the damn thing, which most PDF 3* do as a matter of course.
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • If RDFRA had an political clout then they would have got most of the things they have looked for, history shows they haven't.

                              The think that kept rural centre (even with the new reorg) is rural TDs!

                              The TA are far from purely infantry.

                              The reason why training and attendance is poor is lack of DISCIPLINE, yes there roles but the PDF/DOD won't let us do them!

                              Eg RDF personnel can do guard as part of FTT outside a manned barracks and get to rest off. But if they are in a manned barracks they can't.

                              If people know that they are training to take part in a exercise/duty they are more likely to turn up. If they are well treated (eg given rain gear) they are even more likely and if compensated in some way in more so.

                              When I say turn up I also mean put the effort in.

                              FIXED that for you.


                              Thanks Apod but I can construct my own posts!
                              Raison d'ete
                              Last edited by DeV; 5 March 2013, 20:32.

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                              • As it stood in the past, looking in RDF were good enough to do a guard in say Lahinch on a camp as part of camp but not a guard in say Renmore which attracted SDA

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