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  • So, what's the verdict on today's RDFRA brief?

    Just a repeat on the hatchet job of chasing lads out of a job? Or something else?

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    • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
      So, what's the verdict on today's RDFRA brief?

      Just a repeat on the hatchet job of chasing lads out of a job? Or something else?
      The purpose of the committee hearings is to give those called a chance to air their views to those who make the final decision. It should be available to view online later on. The sessions themselves are actually broadcast live.
      So how the RDFRA got on will be available for all to see. The fact the chairman is former FCA and likes to keep in touch with affairs in his old unit will be interesting too.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • The snag though is that one of the three lads who gave the presentation today is the self same lad who chaired the sub -committee which proposed 30% of us should loose our livlihood's and the means to support our families in order for the RDF to keep its status quo.
        Giving p***ks like that a soapbox to preach from sticks in my throat.Am I a dog with a bone on this issue.Damn right!
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

        Comment


        • Ah yes the same sub committee that put a sniper on the grassy knoll and faked the moon landings

          Comment




          • The Minister appeared too!

            Comment


            • Good hearing from the members of the RDFA
              It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                Ah yes the same sub committee that put a sniper on the grassy knoll and faked the moon landings
                what apod said did happen look into was discussed here at length
                Pdf were not happy about it
                Some senior brass still not.
                For ref sake its better forgotten about u

                Comment


                • Originally posted by apod View Post
                  Giving p***ks like that a soapbox to preach from sticks in my throat.
                  Ah democratic process, its such a pain in the hole
                  What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                  Comment





                  • Scroll down to April 24th and click the following link:
                    CR2_20130424-13.30.wmv

                    then fast-forward to just after 14h00
                    Last edited by Sluggie; 25 April 2013, 11:37.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by apod View Post
                      The snag though is that one of the three lads who gave the presentation today is the self same lad who chaired the sub -committee which proposed 30% of us should loose our livlihood's and the means to support our families in order for the RDF to keep its status quo.
                      Giving p***ks like that a soapbox to preach from sticks in my throat.Am I a dog with a bone on this issue.Damn right!
                      FFS.

                      You, nor I, nor anyone else is entitled to a job.

                      I've gone through two redundancy processes in the last 18 months, and my livelihood is presently in jeopardy due to contractual changes and change in business practice. I am the sole provider for a wife and baby, and no one gives a fúck about that. Why? Because it's none of their business but my own. So quit cribbing about it.

                      The DF are committed to providing up to 850 people overseas at any one time. Each member of the PDF is contractual obligated to do one overseas tour in a five year period. Therefore, to maintain one man overseas over 5 years, the PDF has to employ 10 people to maintain that capability. Needless to say, the Army's strength is in around 8,500. The DF currently has 450 people overseas, meaning that 400 lads that could be overseas are at home. Meaning that effectively 4000 PDF personnel currently aren't part of any deployment cycle.

                      Is it any wonder then, that if RDFRA, the DoD, SIPTU, Mary in the Cornershop, or whoever were to look at that situation realistically, and then look at the RDF who are being brought into a "single force concept", and then looked outside of Ireland to see what everyone else does with their Reserve Forces; is not logical to wonder, what if, out of the 10 men necessary to facilitate the capability of deploying one man overseas, one of them was a Reservist?

                      The savings would be in the millions. That's not because Reserves are cheaper to deploy, it's because Reserves are cheaper to hold, particularly during periods of low operational tempo. International studies estimate that Reserves cost 20-25% that of their permanent counterparts to hold, so it might be seen by some as that we're paying to hold 4000 full time PDF guys who effectively are surplus to operational requirement at this moment in time while a cohort of 4000 Reservists lies dormant and not utilised.

                      That's not to say I personally think we should replace RDF with PDF, I don't, I'm just stating the facts.

                      As far as I'm aware, there is no official policy by RDFRA to petition the MoD for a cull the numbers of the PDF. None whatsoever. If a "glossy document" is floating around with RDFRA's stamp on it, it wasn't submitted formally by RDFRA, nor was it sanctioned by RDFRA to my knowledge. If RDFRA did want to propose any such motion, they had the ideal setting to do so yesterday before the Oireachtas Defence Committee, and they didn't. In fact, their message was that they embrace the single force concept, but things need to be addressed and supports put in place if the concept is to work.

                      PDFORRA and RACO however have called for the abolishment of the RDF. A clear indication that those RAs aren't willing to participate in the Single Force Concept and that blind protectionism is their sole agenda. It seems a bit of cop on and growing up is required there, because like it or not, despite the unwillingness of vested interests, Ireland will have to eventually follow the international trend and begin to adopt a more Reserve centric defence model in order to be more cost effective.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                        Ah yes the same sub committee that put a sniper on the grassy knoll and faked the moon landings
                        Are you doubting they did it??PM me your email address.I will send you a copy

                        Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                        Ah democratic process, its such a pain in the hole
                        Please explain what RDFRA reps trying to do people out of their jobs behind those peoples(there comrades in arms)and there own members and President backs has to do with the democratic process?Especially when anybody who criticises RDFRA is told "Wind your neck in".
                        FFS.

                        You, nor I, nor anyone else is entitled to a job.

                        I've gone through two redundancy processes in the last 18 months, and my livelihood is presently in jeopardy due to contractual changes and change in business practice. I am the sole provider for a wife and baby, and no one gives a fúck about that. Why? Because it's none of their business but my own. So quit cribbing about it.
                        Boo f***ing hoo.I have no idea what your personal circumstances are.None of my business.However IIRC you used to be public sector yourself.You left for your own reasons but would a better paid civvie job be one of them??You made your choice.We,who choose to serve on made ours,for whatever reasons.Who would give up a secure job in a recession anyway??I digress.During the celtic tiger the public sector workers,especially the lower paid workers were laughed at by the private sector.Comments like"I wouldn't get out of bed for what they pay you"were common.Now the shoe is on the other foot!
                        The government have done a great job of turning the private sector against the public sector and now they are doing the same within the public sector.Ref the recent comments from the GRA about DF recruiting as an example.
                        What my point?At a time when we should be sticking together different areas of the public sector are turning on each other.Some openly.Some sneakily(RDFRA submission to PAC)That need to stop.Fast!Yes.No one is guaranteed a job.However we shouldn't have to worry about our own trying to stab us in the back!!
                        As for cribbing.Three things.
                        1/ how many pages of cribbing have we had on this thread from the RDF???
                        2/ Soldiers perogative
                        3/ DISCUSSION forum.Nature of the beast.

                        The DF are committed to providing up to 850 people overseas at any one time. Each member of the PDF is contractual obligated to do one overseas tour in a five year period. Therefore, to maintain one man overseas over 5 years, the PDF has to employ 10 people to maintain that capability. Needless to say, the Army's strength is in around 8,500. The DF currently has 450 people overseas, meaning that 400 lads that could be overseas are at home. Meaning that effectively 4000 PDF personnel currently aren't part of any deployment cycle.
                        That number is due to drop again unless we get the Mali op.Deployment cycles are just that.A cycle.Train,deploy,rest.With 3 brigades that was easy.Now we have two.Not so easy.But unless you want to burn out your troops you need the rest part as much as the train and deploy parts.Soldiers are also people too with families.Unless you are saying we aren't allowed them anymore because RDFRA doesn't agree with our deployment cycle?
                        Is it any wonder then, that if RDFRA, the DoD, SIPTU, Mary in the Cornershop, or whoever were to look at that situation realistically, and then look at the RDF who are being brought into a "single force concept", and then looked outside of Ireland to see what everyone else does with their Reserve Forces; is not logical to wonder, what if, out of the 10 men necessary to facilitate the capability of deploying one man overseas, one of them was a Reservist?

                        The savings would be in the millions. That's not because Reserves are cheaper to deploy, it's because Reserves are cheaper to hold, particularly during periods of low operational tempo. International studies estimate that Reserves cost 20-25% that of their permanent counterparts to hold, so it might be seen by some as that we're paying to hold 4000 full time PDF guys who effectively are surplus to operational requirement at this moment in time while a cohort of 4000 Reservists lies dormant and not utilised.
                        Snag with that pal.Their is a huge difference between your average RDF man and a reservist in the UK or the US for example.In terms of attitude and training for two examples.I think johnny tax payer(if he cared) would prefer that he gets value for money for his euro.Which at present the PDF deliver.The RDF doesn't.Also who says those 4000 personnel are "surplus to requirement".Just because they are not deployed overseas doesn't mean they are not working.Most doing tasks that the government wont pay others to do,too expensive.
                        That's not to say I personally think we should replace RDF with PDF, I don't, I'm just stating the facts.
                        No.On the contrary.I think with this post you have shown EXACTLY where you stand.
                        As far as I'm aware, there is no official policy by RDFRA to petition the MoD for a cull the numbers of the PDF. None whatsoever. If a "glossy document" is floating around with RDFRA's stamp on it, it wasn't submitted formally by RDFRA, nor was it sanctioned by RDFRA to my knowledge. If RDFRA did want to propose any such motion, they had the ideal setting to do so yesterday before the Oireachtas Defence Committee, and they didn't. In fact, their message was that they embrace the single force concept, but things need to be addressed and supports put in place if the concept is to work.
                        LMFAO of coursssssssssssssssse not. And if my aunt had wheels she'd be a wagon!!Gotta love plausable deniabilityif the membership know nothing about it and it goes pear shaped the architects of the submission can deny all knowledge.

                        PDFORRA and RACO however have called for the abolishment of the RDF. A clear indication that those RAs aren't willing to participate in the Single Force Concept and that blind protectionism is their sole agenda.
                        Could you blame em??Soldiers are on FIS FFS And RDFRA tried to put more of them on the welfare in order to keep their little kingdoms going!!!Get real.
                        It seems a bit of cop on and growing up is required there, because like it or not, despite the unwillingness of vested interests, Ireland will have to eventually follow the international trend and begin to adopt a more Reserve centric defence model in order to be more cost effective.
                        Perhaps you are right.Maybe in time that will come.In the meantime RDFRA should do its own membership a favour and stop alienating the very people it need to help it grow and become something of value to johnny taxpayer!
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment


                        • apod what would Pdfora do if you were told that in 3 years ye could be gone!!!!!!! would they say ok or try to justify its very been.

                          i understand both sides of this argument as i come from a military family, but is this shit keep going one between both Pdf and Rdf this single force thing is over before it even gets going Rdfra i beleve are trying to justify its and the Rdf exsistance
                          Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                          Comment


                          • APOD calm down with your witch hunt, RDFRA does not represent anywhere near all reservists, I know you have sand in your vagina but there is no concerted campaign to replace PDF with RDF.
                            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                            • It is Bitch when a representative association you have nothing to with makes recommendations on your terms and conditions isn't it

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by apod View Post
                                Boo f***ing hoo.
                                I wasn't looking for sympathy myself, only highlighting that a job in ANY sector isn't an entitlement.

                                Unless you are saying we aren't allowed them anymore because RDFRA doesn't agree with our deployment cycle?
                                No one is questioning the deployment cycle.

                                Snag with that pal.Their is a huge difference between your average RDF man and a reservist in the UK or the US for example.In terms of attitude and training for two examples.
                                That can be changed within 5 years with the right application of marketing, recruitment, training and employment.

                                I think johnny tax payer(if he cared) would prefer that he gets value for money for his euro.
                                I think you fundamentally misunderstand Johnny Tax payer.

                                No.On the contrary.I think with this post you have shown EXACTLY where you stand.
                                Nope, I'm just being objective. If I were COS for a day, I'd be telling the MoD that the Single Force Concept can deliver 950 bodies overseas (instead of 850) at any one time, using the RDF to provide the additional 100, if he's willing to rebalance the books a little to invest further in the RDF. That way I'd maintain my permanent strength, validate the service of the Reserve, increase the profile of the DF, give more options to the MoD for overseas deployments and increase Ireland's commitments to the UN, EU Battlegroup etc.

                                The PDF is at it's lowest strength in years, why would I want it decreased further?

                                LMFAO of coursssssssssssssssse not. And if my aunt had wheels she'd be a wagon!!Gotta love plausable deniabilityif the membership know nothing about it and it goes pear shaped the architects of the submission can deny all knowledge.

                                Could you blame em??Soldiers are on FIS FFS And RDFRA tried to put more of them on the welfare in order to keep their little kingdoms going!!!Get real
                                Does that tinfoil hat not get itchy from time to time?

                                Perhaps you are right.Maybe in time that will come.In the meantime RDFRA should do its own membership a favour and stop alienating the very people it need to help it grow and become something of value to johnny taxpayer!
                                If you watch the RDFRA presentation, you'll see that RDFRA were quite supportive of the PDF.

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