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  1. #6076
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    Quote Originally Posted by koppiteal View Post
    Honest Opinions lads what do you think the findings will be
    Corps Units Highly Successful, Outside of this its hit or miss.

    SFC has worked in CIS, significant contributions to the DF and the Battlegroups.
    Squad look this way, i will give a full and complete demonstration on how to post.
    Type 1-2-3-4 fact check and POST

    Cryos

  2. #6077
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    Has there been any consensus or update in relation to wearing the Cúltaca badge on DPM shirt, in terms of positioning, etc.

    I have seen all sorts to date.
    Why so. A9 is explicit.F***ed up but explicit.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  3. #6078
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    To me there is a direct relationship between the success of the SFC in a particular unit and the ability of key RDF personnel to engage M-F

  4. #6079
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Why so. A9 is explicit.F***ed up but explicit.
    A9 is impossible, so much so that J1 issued guidance (which differs from A9)

  5. #6080
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    I agree. I see some people outside my CoC who ignore it but nearly everyone knows the score now, and TBH its actually not bad at all ; SD1 is straightforward . DPM shirts depending on the flag size can be a pain in the hole but all are doable ( read A9 and followup J1 guidance as stated by B20 ) . DPM smock no problem. Advise using velcro !


    With respect to findings I can only speak for my own experience

    1) SFC - Unit Commanders must set the tone , backed by their BSM or equivalent and the PDF C.S's .

    2) To be fair my experience has been that this has indeed been the case EXCEPT one case which I put below - read to the end pls

    3) On the RDF Side : responsibility given must be treated as such - each fkup takes 10 times as long to recover that trust ; we are our own worst enemy here . If you have a job given by the DF you can not just go home when you like it or when your civvie job starts - that is not what volunteer means . Enter into it with the correct mindset cos nothing will work otherwise . Every time we put effort in here it really pays off

    4) Ignorance is no defence understand on both sides that context and communication is everything, RDF and PDF find it very difficult to communicate in equivalent terms when both sides want to extract value , the units that have solved this problem shine out like beacons across the whole DF ( and there an inf unit or two in there not just corps, some of the corps are shockingly bad , Artys good for example , Tpt is good ) . Some real lessons to be picked up there

    5) RDF have limited value unless you have them fulltime or they can work remote ( nearly impossible but some niche areas manage ). RDF want to provide value but its only X days per year ; PDF do not think like this and it is difficult to get into the planning cycles - no fault on either side its part of context and communication

    6) Admin :
    1) Recruiting is in shite ; utter, utter shite . No words suffice. This is an ADMIN problem as there has never been a problem getting people in the barrack gate ; give us back control FFS it can hardly get worse. Understand that time is a factor : a lad who is not doing some training within quick time will soon head somewhere else ; you need to build camaraderie and unit spirit fast.

    2) Pay for RDF is the great shame of the world; PDF should hang their heads in shame ; if it was yer own pay you wouldn't let it happen ( Pay is frequently several weeks late, if it ever comes ) . If I could drive to the bank and withdraw the cash like we used to be able to do I could solve this in a day. I Might add that this problem has ONLY happened since the re-org

    3) Far, far behind those two

    i) Promotions - fk sake - yes CS4 is a limit - but the top-heavy nature of the force is killing it - put in place a proper structure

    ii) Bring grat back for heavens sake it costs nothing but all that petrol to get to barracks costs us money
    Last edited by trellheim; 30th April 2017 at 15:43.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  7. #6081
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    6) Admin :
    1) Recruiting is in shite ; utter, utter shite . No words suffice. This is an ADMIN problem as there has never been a problem getting people in the barrack gate ; give us back control FFS it can hardly get worse. Understand that time is a factor : a lad who is not doing some training within quick time will soon head somewhere else ; you need to build camaraderie and unit spirit fast.
    Thing is the biggest single problem is the S/Clearance. I'm old enough to remember going to the local Collator to get the form stamped and that was that.

    The Garda clearance is now centralised within the Vetting Bureau and that isn't going to change. E-vetting is abolutely brilliant, all being ok, from the time the organisation sends your initial paper form to AGS, you'll get the online form, sent it it in, be cleared and the info back with the organisation within max 3 weeks.

    The delays are when the person fills out the paper form to getting to AGS and then from the time AGS get back to the DF. Some on the General Staff needs to address it (to the benefit of both PDF and RDF), my suggestion get a few RDF officers and NCOs into J2 for a few weeks.

  8. #6082
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    A recent poll of most of my mates who would see a lot of the intake

    A huge percentage of our intake into the RDF is going straight to the PDF after a very short period ; while I can't deny them their career choice it is savage for us given the extended recruiting timeline.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  10. #6083
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    A recent poll of most of my mates who would see a lot of the intake

    A huge percentage of our intake into the RDF is going straight to the PDF after a very short period ; while I can't deny them their career choice it is savage for us given the extended recruiting timeline.
    Nothing new there. Retention has always been the issue.

    My argument being the RDF needed a new target audience and mechanisms to improve retention but the DF never seized the opportunity.

    12 years on from the integration plan of 2005 and they still haven't copped on.
    Just visiting

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  12. #6084
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    18 years old, unemployed or part-time employed and wants to join the regulars but applies to the RDF first. In reality they should never be recruited by the RDF.

    Ideally you want someone in full-time employment and/or with no desire to join the regular forces.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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  14. #6085
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    I don't see the downside in it, I see the positive. Someone who meets the criteria and is eligible and willing for RDF service should be inducted, indeed if they are going to join the PDF they should be qualified by extension to join the RDF.

    PDF recruit instructors can tell on Day 1 who is already able to march, who knows his ranks, who will later have already done TOETS, etc. This gives a positive impression among the PDF cadre of the ability of the RDF to train potential PDF recruits and cadets. Yes, the RDF is losing them but they (generally) have only been there for a few months, or a year. Its not really a loss more like a temporary body who was going to leave anyway being properly prepared for the real thing, and RDF members who now have an extra contact in the PDF.

  15. #6086
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    Yeah but that comes back to employment protection or some other benefit to employee (grat?) or employer doesn't it?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  17. #6087
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    In the past it wasn't too much of an issue but with recruitment and strength so low.... It's a race to survive

  18. #6088
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    After 31 years of looking at this, FCA and RDF have always taken the well-trodden path to the PDF GS and Cadets ; only on Wednesday I found an old mate in the AC from 1988 when we were all in the 20th in Griffith.

    My point, such as it is, is that the percentage of those attested into the RDF , going permanent, is an order of magnitude higher than pre-2012 .

    Given the long recruiting timeframe this is an absolutely savage blow right into the heart of the RDF
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  20. #6089
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    In fairness, it has always been the way. A lot of us joined the reserves at a time when we would have preferred to join the PDF, and been better suited for it. We were young un- or barely- employed and would have benefitted for five years in uniform. RDF would have been a natural progression for many of us after that.
    At that time of greater unemployment, I think a rolling system of short stint non-renewable service enlistments (say three years) would have solved the age profile, provided employment for a few thousand and -if coupled with a more coherent reserve policy of recruiting as many of these as could be got into the second-line reserve after, transformed the entire Defence Forces.
    Oh well, bygones.

  21. #6090
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Anything to be said for just hitting the reset button on the whole thing? Move across those active at the moment and dump all those supernummary?

  22. #6091
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Anything to be said for just hitting the reset button on the whole thing? Move across those active at the moment and dump all those supernummary?
    The DoD can't even legislate for the current position how many years later

  23. #6092
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Anything to be said for just hitting the reset button on the whole thing? Move across those active at the moment and dump all those supernummary?
    to what pray tell
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  24. #6093
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    It seems to me that there a various structural and recruitment issues within the RDF. The movement of joiners from the RDF to the PDF seems to be a persistent problem and I must admit that I was guilty of doing that too. The RDF just isn't enticing enough recruits in on the basis of being a part time soldier/sailor but instead just as a PDF stepping stone. The RDF should be marketed better with an increased focus on the training opportunities etc.

    I also think putting a block on a PDF application for say 12 months after RDF attestation could be a positive step. Joining the RDF for 3-4 years while in college could be seen as positive for a subsequent PDF application but what good is a few months as a recruit or as a 2*?

    As for hitting the reset button; if I'm a new joiner, I would want to see training opportunities, opportunities to change role and also the opportunity to be promoted. Being told that I'm unlikely to get past the rank of Corporal because of some Sergeant who hasn't surfaced in months/years is very discouraging. There are rarely courses for subsequent ranks and irregular opportunities for promotion to officer.

    The next bit is controversial as I know there are members on this site in the bracket I'm going to mention next. However, junior members of the RDF have their promotion opportunities held up due to units having Corporals and Lieutenants in their forties and Sergeants and Captains in their fifties. Does this really help retention matters. This is far too old for a junior officer. I know they have a lot of experience and are the collective memories of a unit but there are others who miss getting this experience at rank when it counts or at all. The benefit of retaining that knowledge is reduced by the impact it has downstream on keeping good bodies in uniform. I understand that there are definitely types of officer that should be kept on at any age, such ex PDF NS watch-keepers or those with professional qualifications but a platoon leader should be a young thruster.

    I know there are a myriad of other problems that would have to be solved first but getting a plan in place and then resetting everything (carrying across those who've been active within a year with rank) could be a start. A move up or move out promotion structure could eventually be actioned. Just a thought....
    Last edited by Auldsod; 6th June 2017 at 12:31.

  25. #6094
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The usefulness of folks to the RDF only really starts to come after year 2 you see because of needed training, so a 1 year block is no good

    Your point about an "up-or-out" mentality is really good - how to make it work ... 20% of establishment are vacated every year , rolling 24 months assessment period to see if you fall into the 20%


    or couple that with some form of every establishment post above Pte ( including mine ) comes up for vacancy every 24 months


    Some form of this is needed or its paralysis will keep going.

    That said though there have to be opportunities and competiions for the vacancies we have now.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  26. #6095
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    It seems to me that there a various structural and recruitment issues within the RDF. The movement of joiners from the RDF to the PDF seems to be a persistent problem and I must admit that I was guilty of doing that too. The RDF just isn't enticing enough recruits in on the basis of being a part time soldier/sailor but instead just as a PDF stepping stone. The RDF should be marketed better with an increased focus on the training opportunities etc.
    Should be marketed full stop!

    The only way really (within current regulations etc) is to actively target the 25-34 age group (ie too old to join PDF).

    I also think putting a block on a PDF application for say 12 months after RDF attestation could be a positive step. Joining the RDF for 3-4 years while in college could be seen as positive for a subsequent PDF application but what good is a few months as a recruit or as a 2*?
    already there for the bonus points for the cadets (effective from 1 Jan of the year prior).

    As for hitting the reset button; if I'm a new joiner, I would want to see training opportunities, opportunities to change role and also the opportunity to be promoted. Being told that I'm unlikely to get past the rank of Corporal because of some Sergeant who hasn't surfaced in months/years is very discouraging. There are rarely courses for subsequent ranks and irregular opportunities for promotion to officer.
    number of issues there. Realistically the new joiner should be at least 3 years minimum off corporal.
    DF need to enforce the current effectiveness and non-effectiveness regulations.
    The courses are being run and there are vacancies on them.

    The next bit is controversial as I know there are members on this site in the bracket I'm going to mention next. However, junior members of the RDF have their promotion opportunities held up due to units having Corporals and Lieutenants in their forties and Sergeants and Captains in their fifties. Does this really help retention matters. This is far too old for a junior officer. I know they have a lot of experience and are the collective memories of a unit but there are others who miss getting this experience at rank when it counts or at all. The benefit of retaining that knowledge is reduced by the impact it has downstream on keeping good bodies in uniform. I understand that there are definitely types of officer that should be kept on at any age, such ex PDF NS watch-keepers or those with professional qualifications but a platoon leader should be a young thruster.

    I know there are a myriad of other problems that would have to be solved first but getting a plan in place and then resetting everything (carrying across those who've been active within a year with rank) could be a start. A move up or move out promotion structure could eventually be actioned. Just a thought....
    There aren't any corporals (of any age) blocking promotions. The only ranks which are over subscribed are SNCOs and Lts.

  27. #6096
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Just on a few of the points above. I definitely think targeting the older cohort of recruit would be a great idea. The maturity and work experience could certainly add a lot to the organisation when added to the melting pot with the youth and enthusiasm of the younger recruits. This age group normally have more commitments though so the RDF would need to get better at communicating recruit training dates etc in advance so that this age group can plan accordingly.

    Bonus points for cadets aren't as useful as you'd expect unless they've changed substantially in the five years since I went through the process. Having a four year degree gave the maximum number of points straight away so such a candidate would already surpass a candidate with RDF experience and good Irish proficiency. Most cadets (but not all) have a degree going in now.

    I don't have the latest detail but are there career courses being run every year now beyond the Pots course? Potential officers course being run annually etc?

    The age profile of the RDF officer cohort does worry me though. I noticed a photo recently in a local publication with four RDF officers (a number of lieutenants and a captain). All were well beyond their thirties and one was extremely overweight. The lack of fitness of that one officer in particular in my opinion doesn't do much for the optics the RDF is trying to display. If I'm a fit twenty year old, how am I supposed to take that officer seriously when he's promoting the requirement for high fitness standards in my unit?
    Last edited by Auldsod; 7th June 2017 at 09:25.

  28. #6097
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    There's only a theoretical excess of lts and SNCOs at this stage surely, when was the past potential officers course? 4 or 5 years ago maybe? Same with standards there hasn't been one for a while. Over the last 2 years around 30 cpls were minted in the south but I don't think any pots course was run in the east. Given the time frames involved basically every young cpl needs to do a standards course and then potential officers straight away!
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  29. #6098
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    It's been so long since a potential officer course now that they may have to start issuing age waivers to those on the books as a Cpl so long....

  30. #6099
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    There's only a theoretical excess of lts and SNCOs at this stage surely
    Still well over . A Captains competition would fix the second problem though and unfortunately for us , for the last year, our representative association put that problem beyond the military's ability to fix and there is no timeline for its solution
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  31. #6100
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Still well over . A Captains competition would fix the second problem though and unfortunately for us , for the last year, our representative association put that problem beyond the military's ability to fix and there is no timeline for its solution
    Just curious about the above? How did the RDFRA manage to screw that up so that the DF can't fix? You'd imagine promotion to Captain should be automatic in an ideal environment assuming performance and attendance needs were met. Oh and maybe with a greater time in rank than you'd have in the PDF.

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