The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

[Buck]

Why don't the wannabe warriors on here just join the PDF if the RDF is so bad?

trust me, it's not for want of trying.

[Fridge Magnet]

Why don't the wannabe warriors on here just join the PDF if the RDF is so bad?

You shouldn't have to go full time if you're already serving in a military organisation, to expect to be treated and trained like a soldier.

[DeV]

Sure im told you can track attendances and put people onto non - effective lists etc and ive also heard that unless you attend 32 hrs parade night training hours this year that you are either non effective or are going to be dismissed to make way for recruits.

There are limitations on discharges but you always could. But for some reason some units (2 brigades in particular) always kept people on the books who should have been discharged. That came to bite them were the small amount of recruitment was allowed. Those units have no one to blame but themselves.

I heard this morning the equivalent of a full battalion in the West should have been discharged for TOE.

Not knowing what PowerPoint is, is sometimes an advantage!

It isn't all the RDFs fault either (although in a lot of ways we do ourselves no favours) eg kit (recruits on camp with only 1 uniform and no CEFO).

[Barry]

Not knowing what PowerPoint is, is sometimes an advantage!

This is like saying that not being aware that taking the left flank is an option, and going right flanking all the time instead, is an advantage. Powerpoint is a tool which is suitable for some situations, and not suitable for others. If you don't know about it then you never have the option of using it.

[Connaught Stranger]

You shouldn't have to go full time if you're already serving in a military organisation, to expect to be treated and trained like a soldier.

And yet the country cant support "two standing armies" in these economic recessions, they barely could do it in the boom times,
something has to give, as they wont just keep cutting back PDF units.

[ropebag]

And yet the country cant support "two standing armies" in these economic recessions, they barely could do it in the boom times,
something has to give, as they wont just keep cutting back PDF units.

putting aside the radical concept that a regular soldier and a reserve/part-time soldier don't actually have to be in different Armies, i would think that anyone with the intention of keeping the regular Army at maximum possible strength, if necessary at the expence of the reserve componant, should not allow the words 'value' or 'money' to pass their lips. the nasty, uncomfortable truth is that for Ireland's security needs and defence posture, a small regular cadre and a larger reserve componant would be the ideal set-up in value for money terms. regulars are very, very expensive, and reservists are very, very cheap...

[morpheus]

To be honest.
The RDF costs so little to run now that I cant possibly see how it makes economic sense to remove even the small small capability it provides to the defence forces ORBAT.
Whatever way you paint it, at the very least,
you have circa 4000 militia troops
who know how to operate at a comprehensible level in platoon size units
under military control,
with basic fieldcraft
and tactical skills,
who can fire / maintain small arms
and participate in company sized operations.

Maybe not organically, but used to supplement regular forces it gives the DF a 30% capacity growth capability in a pinch.

granted - the day we send the RDF to fill PDF slots, were probably all in the scheister.

Also, what would you do with the 5 or 6 million it costs to run the RDF? (including remaining cadre salaries) if you disbanded them tomorrow? because i know that rather than be reinvested in a replacement PC9, it would instead be painted up as a once off cost cutting measure for the committee for defence by the minister.

[SwiftandSure]

Why don't the wannabe warriors on here just join the PDF if the RDF is so bad?

Because defending Ireland isn't a full time occupation.

...and it doesn't pay enough.

[DeV]

To be honest.
The RDF costs so little to run now that I cant possibly see how it makes economic sense to remove even the small small capability it provides to the defence forces ORBAT.
Whatever way you paint it, at the very least,
you have circa 4000 militia troops
who know how to operate at a comprehensible level in platoon size units
under military control,
with basic fieldcraft
and tactical skills,
who can fire / maintain small arms
and participate in company sized operations.

Maybe not organically, but used to supplement regular forces it gives the DF a 30% capacity growth capability in a pinch.

granted - the day we send the RDF to fill PDF slots, were probably all in the scheister.

Also, what would you do with the 5 or 6 million it costs to run the RDF? (including remaining cadre salaries) if you disbanded them tomorrow? because i know that rather than be reinvested in a replacement PC9, it would instead be painted up as a once off cost cutting measure for the committee for defence by the minister.

The thing is a force that isn't allowed to do anything can never provide VFM, but yet the RDF is being punished for it!

[Fridge Magnet]

And yet the country cant support "two standing armies" in these economic recessions, they barely could do it in the boom times,
something has to give, as they wont just keep cutting back PDF units.

Well, when things like Border Allowance still exist, the "something has to give" line really doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny.

[Fridge Magnet]

To be honest.
The RDF costs so little to run now that I cant possibly see how it makes economic sense to remove even the small small capability it provides to the defence forces ORBAT.
Whatever way you paint it, at the very least,
you have circa 4000 militia troops
who know how to operate at a comprehensible level in platoon size units
under military control,
with basic fieldcraft
and tactical skills,
who can fire / maintain small arms
and participate in company sized operations.

Maybe not organically, but used to supplement regular forces it gives the DF a 30% capacity growth capability in a pinch.

granted - the day we send the RDF to fill PDF slots, were probably all in the scheister.

Also, what would you do with the 5 or 6 million it costs to run the RDF? (including remaining cadre salaries) if you disbanded them tomorrow? because i know that rather than be reinvested in a replacement PC9, it would instead be painted up as a once off cost cutting measure for the committee for defence by the minister.

I'd be inclined to agree.

You take away the RDF and it's budget will go with it. It won't be tipped back into the overall Defence budget.

[goc132]

The €11 million will go back to the Labour FG Minister Mr Howlins account don't be fooled it won't go to the PDF.

[expat01]

They aren't going to scrap the RDF, because the savings aren't worth it. They aren't going to come up with a plan to use the RDF because that smacks of imagination. I've said it before, the powers that be do not believe in their hearts that Ireland can produce anything meaningful in the military sense. They have no confidence in the Defence Forces because its THEIR Defence Forces and couldn't possibly be capable of anything. 90 years of no self-belief.
So much for the national psychology, can anything practical be done with what we have?
I've wondered if there isn't a case for RDF training camps, after recruit camp, being conducted on the ground. 7 days of living on the ground rather than in billets with a wet mess.
If there is only so much time available, why not direct it all to producing a force that's at least tactically competent?
Without increasing training days, would it make more sense to scrap the weekly parade night and have instead one full weekend per month, Friday night to Sunday evening? Would that help increase the number of effectives?

[expat01]

Despite the general decline in battle readiness of the SANDF, or perhaps because of it, the reserves are still considered a vital component over here. Since conscription ended in 1992 (and was for whites only) new reserve members do not have prior military training anymore unless they are joining after leaving the permanent force. I know reservists who have served "up in Africa" where there is considerably more contact situation on an ongoing basis than the occasional large clusterfudge like what happened in the CAR with the parabats.

http://www.rfdiv.mil.za/

http://www.rfdiv.mil.za/howtojoin.html

[Truck Driver]

They aren't going to scrap the RDF, because the savings aren't worth it. They aren't going to come up with a plan to use the RDF because that smacks of imagination. I've said it before, the powers that be do not believe in their hearts that Ireland can produce anything meaningful in the military sense. They have no confidence in the Defence Forces because its THEIR Defence Forces and couldn't possibly be capable of anything. 90 years of no self-belief.
So much for the national psychology, can anything practical be done with what we have?
I've wondered if there isn't a case for RDF training camps, after recruit camp, being conducted on the ground. 7 days of living on the ground rather than in billets with a wet mess.
If there is only so much time available, why not direct it all to producing a force that's at least tactically competent?
Without increasing training days, would it make more sense to scrap the weekly parade night and have instead one full weekend per month, Friday night to Sunday evening? Would that help increase the number of effectives?

Some Reserve elements have adopted this approach, in addition to some training nights each month