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  • the only way to get good at doing a 15km speed march in full kit, doing a house attack, a 5 min re-org, a 5km speed march to the range and then doing a shoot, is to practice doing a 15km speed march in full kit, a house attack, a 5 min re-org, a 5km speed march to the range, and doing a shoot. again, and again, and again...

    yes, fitness is something the reservist needs to crowbar into the already busy mix of work, training, and family and social life, but like everything about reserve service, if the Army wants someone to do it, they have to make it as easy as possible - that means being able to have the kit at home so that if the wife takes the kids out to her mothers on a saturday morning, the reservist can hit the hills in his boots, belt kit and bergan, it means reservists being able to use regular army sports facilities on the way home from work, and it means shoe-horning fitness into as much of the programme as possible.

    a regular army that thinks it can relegate the reservists' fitness state to 'thats your problem..', is going find itself with a very severe problem when it wants to mobilise the reserve to take the Army to its war strength, and finds that only 20% of the reserve is capable of undertaking the pre-deployment training neccesary to enable them to be used.

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    • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
      the only way to get good at doing a 15km speed march in full kit, doing a house attack, a 5 min re-org, a 5km speed march to the range and then doing a shoot, is to practice doing a 15km speed march in full kit, a house attack, a 5 min re-org, a 5km speed march to the range, and doing a shoot. again, and again, and again....
      Good point and well made, and there is equally no point in random reservists hiking through the hills in CEMO. Realistically there seems no way any part-time army anywhere can maintain combat fitness to the level of soldiers in full-time training.

      I'm long out of the loop, are PDF standards onerous enough to ensure the failure of most reservists, as opposed to most reservist units coming in at the bottom of the acceptable limits assuming they maintain a good standard of endurance fitness?
      What I mean is that while you personally cannot practice such an exercise, you can personally ensure that your fitness regime is skewed towards endurance and stamina rather than sprinting and body sculpting and I would put it that something of the kind is required of you in your personal life if you expect to be useful as a part-time soldier, but unrealistic expectations don't help either.
      Last edited by expat01; 8 July 2013, 10:18.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
        ...and there is equally no point in random reservists hiking through the hills in CEMO...
        i disagree - though its nothing like as good as a full training day with a big tab, a live fire exercise, and trip to the pool, a bloke doing a big ramble through the Connemara mountains in boots and bergan is conditioning his body to something the Army needs, he's probably consolidating his nav skills, he's getting used to reading terrain, and he's getting his mind used to being outside in changable weather and challenging terrain, and functioning while being knackered and with sweat running into his eyes. is it perfect?, no, it has some bits that are 'training' but misses a lot out. it is however far better than the same bloke being sat at home playing with himself.

        a reservist is never going to be as fit and as practiced as a regular, thats just a fact of life - the trick is to find a level of fitness that allows the reservist to undertake realistic training, and that serves as a 'jumping off point' from which he can acheive 'combat fitness' in a reasonsble amount of time should the need for mobilisation occur - and given the demands placed on a reservist, the Army needs to facilitate that as much possible. for example, when i joined the TA at 17 we had training night on Tuesday where we did our military training, and we had a phys night on Thursdays where we'd rock up to the local park and do two hours of running, football, exercises and short tabs - it built fitness, but it also built espirit d' corps and morale. everyone did stuff in their own time, but Thursday nights was the 'building blocks' of the units fitness, rather than just the individuals, and it worked really well.

        you are right to point to unrealistic expectations as being the Devil in this issue - an experienced reservist who maintains a better than average level of fitness, who is committed and who spends more time than his family would like on his fitness, both general and for role, is still going to need at least 6 weeks full time training before he is able to be used in even the most basic operational role, and months and months before he/she could be deployed in their own role.

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        • a reservist is never going to be as fit and as practiced as a regular, thats just a fact of life
          Tell that to Tpr McCarthy 2cav rdf who won the individual short course DF mountain marathon recently. Well done Tpr!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            Tell that to Tpr McCarthy 2cav rdf who won the individual short course DF mountain marathon recently. Well done Tpr!
            Good show from that Trooper

            But there is still a big difference in combat fitness

            Comment


            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
              If that's a serious question my opinion of you has gone way down.

              That test requires certain kit and clothing, and to complete in a certain timeframe, as you are well aware. Not onerous, certainly, but anyone who attempts the test should practice in the correct rig-out beforehand. Or have the 4P's vanished ?
              There is no need to practice part 3 of the ITs. Anybody who passes parts 1 and 2 should be more than able to pass part 3.

              If you think soldiers can just do what they like and carryout whatever training they feel like doing during a normal working day or in their own time with issued ordnance you very much mistaken. Unless they are in a position of authority or get permission from that person they will have to do what they are told to do. If they want to do training in their own time with issued ordnance they will also have to get permission to take the kit outside barracks.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                There is no need to practice part 3 of the ITs. Anybody who passes parts 1 and 2 should be more than able to pass part 3.
                Then why have part 3?

                If you think soldiers can just do what they like and carryout whatever training they feel like doing during a normal working day or in their own time with issued ordnance you very much mistaken. Unless they are in a position of authority or get permission from that person they will have to do what they are told to do. If they want to do training in their own time with issued ordnance they will also have to get permission to take the kit outside barracks.
                We aren't even necessarily talking about ordnance, even DPMs and boots!

                In recruit / cadet training I very much doubt the personnel are given x kg to carry for a 3 day ex, they build up the weight and fitness over time. They have started from a basic level (the induction test). They build up their fitness during training.

                Yet an RDF recruit will miss the fitness training.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Then why have part 3?


                  We aren't even necessarily talking about ordnance, even DPMs and boots!

                  In recruit / cadet training I very much doubt the personnel are given x kg to carry for a 3 day ex, they build up the weight and fitness over time. They have started from a basic level (the induction test). They build up their fitness during training.

                  Yet an RDF recruit will miss the fitness training.
                  Unless the RDF Recruits do the same 7 months continues training as the Army Recruits do they cannot be trained equally with only 2 hours per week training time and a week long summer camp. The Induction Period for Army Recruits is longer than RDF Recruit Training.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                    Unless the RDF Recruits do the same 7 months continues training as the Army Recruits do they cannot be trained equally with only 2 hours per week training time and a week long summer camp. The Induction Period for Army Recruits is longer than RDF Recruit Training.
                    In that case why expect them to meet the same standard?

                    RDF Recruit training is actually 2 weeks and a number of weekends over 8+ months

                    Comment


                    • jaysus. Get in the boat or get out of the boat. my point : it's unreasonable to expect Military fitness unless you put it on the programme and train to it. , is valid. Getting a man to practice on his own is not the same (worthwhile though ) . i've known posters here drag concreted tyres up and down a field practising.
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        jaysus. Get in the boat or get out of the boat. my point : it's unreasonable to expect Military fitness unless you put it on the programme and train to it. , is valid. Getting a man to practice on his own is not the same (worthwhile though ) . i've known posters here drag concreted tyres up and down a field practising.
                        Then put it in the programme.

                        It doesn't have to be called PT.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                          Then put it in the programme.

                          It doesn't have to be called PT.
                          ORT or OPT PT but that isn't what the DF wants.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            ORT or OPT PT but that isn't what the DF wants.
                            Programme says Patrolling drills. Dress will be CEMO, helmets will be worn, section weapons will be carried.

                            Gonna patrol for a few k. Oh look, the Platoon has been hit up, better step the pace up a bit. So on and so on....

                            There's plenty of ways to get military fitness upto scratch without actually putting "PT" on the programme. It's all about being a cute whore, which any soldier should pride themself on being.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                              Programme says Patrolling drills. Dress will be CEMO, helmets will be worn, section weapons will be carried.

                              Gonna patrol for a few k. Oh look, the Platoon has been hit up, better step the pace up a bit. So on and so on....

                              There's plenty of ways to get military fitness upto scratch without actually putting "PT" on the programme. It's all about being a cute whore, which any soldier should pride themself on being.
                              Yes, if allowed for in the syllabus (eg may only have 6 hrs of section in attack and 1 of movement in the syllabus over 6 months).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                                i disagree - though its nothing like as good as a full training day with a big tab, a live fire exercise, and trip to the pool, a bloke doing a big ramble through the Connemara mountains in boots and bergan is conditioning his body to something the Army needs, he's probably consolidating his nav skills, he's getting used to reading terrain, and he's getting his mind used to being outside in changable weather and challenging terrain, and functioning while being knackered and with sweat running into his eyes. is it perfect?, no, it has some bits that are 'training' but misses a lot out. it is however far better than the same bloke being sat at home playing with himself.

                                a reservist is never going to be as fit and as practiced as a regular, thats just a fact of life - the trick is to find a level of fitness that allows the reservist to undertake realistic training, and that serves as a 'jumping off point' from which he can acheive 'combat fitness' in a reasonsble amount of time should the need for mobilisation occur - and given the demands placed on a reservist, the Army needs to facilitate that as much possible. for example, when i joined the TA at 17 we had training night on Tuesday where we did our military training, and we had a phys night on Thursdays where we'd rock up to the local park and do two hours of running, football, exercises and short tabs - it built fitness, but it also built espirit d' corps and morale. everyone did stuff in their own time, but Thursday nights was the 'building blocks' of the units fitness, rather than just the individuals, and it worked really well.

                                you are right to point to unrealistic expectations as being the Devil in this issue - an experienced reservist who maintains a better than average level of fitness, who is committed and who spends more time than his family would like on his fitness, both general and for role, is still going to need at least 6 weeks full time training before he is able to be used in even the most basic operational role, and months and months before he/she could be deployed in their own role.


                                Ive just completed my IT's today -in 31 degrees - it was not impossible.
                                I ran (well jogged) the 10km in 1hr 4 mins and managed a grade 1 (im almost sure) in the rest.
                                I dont train with backpacks, but i do go to the gym 2 or 3 days a week and do shoulders, chest, back, biceps, triceps.
                                I run 2 - 3 times a week, each run is never more than 9km and often less than 7.
                                If I can do that then any reservist can do that. I dont need to wear issue tac boots (i dont get them issued as im in the RDF) I dont wear combats, I wear shorts and tshirt.
                                training to get fit on week nights - utter bollocks, we dont have time on the syllabus to do that, get off your fat arses and get out in the air yourself. If you want to train with a backpack, get a cheap backpack for running with in tesco or somewhere, start small, 5km with 5kg and build up to over 10km and put 15kg of gravel in a sandbag into it. it will take a couple of months but its common sense.

                                Jesus, part 3 is a poxy stroll, 10km with 12.5kg to be completed in under 1hr 30mins. any 25 year old (im a LOT older) or under who cannot put in the personal preparation to do that , should be out. get out, hike, gym, cycle, run, in all weather and vary the distances, include hills and you're there.

                                sorry, but its just annoying looking at crap comments that we should be fitness training on training nights or on camp. I agree on camp, but only that we should get the platoon up early and hit the PT for an hour before breakfast but not to get them fit, they should be fit anyway, its just to keep people motivated and get them warmed up for what should be a day of section - field type training (for infantry anyway). camp is for annual training that cannot be completed on week nights. week nights are for lessons, admin in the field, theory of navigation, SIA PIA etc. weekends are for using the work done on wk nights. Ex's are for using the full spectrum.

                                I mean absolutely no offence, but if you are waiting on the DF to change the RDF's fitness regime then we have already lost. use your brains, adapt overcome and stop waiting to be led by the nose. if anything you are doing it to get YOURSELF fit and do your body a favour, if it means that when with the army you dont think about the weight on your back or the pain in your hips / knees on a tab but instead think about the mission and your tasks etc then bully for you. if it means you dont have a heart attack at 45 then EVEN better. get out get fit and stop crying because we cant use DF gyms or we dont get issued kit, boots backpacks to train ourselves. that wont change, its an admiral cause for the rep association, but in the meantime, get yourself out there and get stuck in.

                                my 2c

                                i shall now return to my trench.
                                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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