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  • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
    there's also a political debate - read 'stark warning' - that active, deployable reservists are a fundamental part of Defence capability
    Maybe they should have the debate in DFHQ & DOD first!
    Deployable in Ireland would be nice!

    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    Not the DF's job in fairness. It's the DOD's. Remember, legislation was on the books guaranteeing a job if you were a called-up reservist , until the 1954 defence act removed it.

    The DF cannot legislate; that is the job of the Government, via the Department
    True but COS's job is to advise the Minister (Secretary General of DOD advising on policy) - this should be an issue for both.



    Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    30% of the Single Force is fúck all use to them without the appropriate legislative enablers and that that might be worth looking at.
    Is it?
    What about those in school/college and not working?
    What about those unfortunately out of work?

    Comment


    • With any luck, someone up high will have an epiphany when they're putting together the next White Paper and realise that 30% of the Single Force is fúck all use to them without the appropriate legislative enablers and that that might be worth looking at
      Doesn't take a white paper to figure that one out. Some of us were shouting the very point 20 years ago, but as along as the PDF didn't want to know the government never felt to need to even engage on the subject.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        ...Is it?
        What about those in school/college and not working?
        What about those unfortunately out of work?
        you can't have formed units as part of your ORBAT if only students and the unemployed members of those units are going to be able to ctually turn up - what happens when X Battery is required but the BC, BK, BSM, half the FOO's/OPA's and half the gun teams can't get time off work?

        this 'students and unemployed' concept is OK if what your doctrine requires is a pool of people able to undertake basic military tasks like manning checkpoints, force protection, securing infrastructure like airports, docks and barracks while the fully trained, fully equipped regular units go off and do the fighty-bangy stuff, but if a Logistic Bn is expecting a draft of 50 Reservist HGV drivers but gets 20 blokes who can man the guns on the now driverless wagons, then the Bde relying on that Logs Bn is going to start going short of critical supplies very quickly.

        a unit is not X number of random blokes, its a very carefully put together machine with X number of cogs in it - when you randomly remove 50% of the cogs because they can't get time off work that units isn't going to produce 50% of what it would otherwise produce, its going to produce fcuk all - chaoticly.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Is it?
          What about those in school/college and not working?
          What about those unfortunately out of work?
          Looks like Ropebag beat me to it.

          The thing about EP is that it goes some way to guarantee the availability of the RDF. People might be available while studying/not working today, but their circumstances may change tomorrow. Plus, if you're relying on an army of students to populate the RDF then the depth of skills and experience among the troops that are available to respond to a mobilisation request will be minimal.

          So in summary, a Single Force Concept that doesn't include Reservist EP legislation or Reservist employer engagement is about as usual as tits on a fish.

          Comment


          • What I'm saying is if your incentivising those in employment you have to do it for others who aren't! And the self-employed (but they already get a tax break)

            It first step has to be employment protection in the (unlikely) event of call out. Which I agree with.

            If they wanted to incentivise people to attend FTT, they could reintroduce grat, get rid of the 10% pay cut for RDF, pay people on time, etc

            I think the model along the lines of the RDF public service leave could strike a fair balance. 2/3 days paid (or unpaid) leave for 7 days FTT.

            For it to work you would need to tell the employer at the time of job offer. If you had the chose of giving John 20 days or Stephen 27 days annual leave and everything else was equal, how many employers will pick Stephen.

            Comment


            • I heard a good one recently of a RDF private's mammy writing to the Minister asking why her son couldnt have another week of mandays having already used 28 days. Her son was a 2* and was 23 years of age!! I bet that went down well when his company commander paraded him to give him the good news

              Comment


              • I heard a good one recently of a RDF private's mammy writing to the Minister asking why her son couldnt have another week of mandays having already used 28 days. Her son was a 2* and was 23 years of age!! I bet that went down well when his company commander paraded him to give him the good news
                Which bit ? Mammies writing to the minister or the local TD is not confined to the RDF by any means.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  And the self-employed (but they already get a tax break)
                  They do? What one?

                  Comment


                  • For it to work you would need to tell the employer at the time of job offer. If you had the chose of giving John 20 days or Stephen 27 days annual leave and everything else was equal, how many employers will pick Stephen
                    Depends on how leave is taken, sme places work on a shut down basis which doesn't always coincide with FTT, as indeed some places have rostered leave periods, as a lot of small companies need to hire replacements when people are on leave so the employment protect is more complicated than just giving the employer a tax break.

                    the reservits would be demanding specialist treatment in the work place while he might not be the sharpest tool in the box and this often causes friction which management need to avoid.

                    While it is a pre requiste to having a workable deployable reserve, its not feasible in the eyes of the employers, the army don't carrry enough clout to make it work at a departmental level and to a certain extent it probably suits the Department and the army to let the reserve die a death by natural causes.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      ... to a certain extent it probably suits the Department and the army to let the reserve die a death by natural causes.
                      i think, sadly, that this is the intention - if you wanted the Reserve componant to die off of its own accord with the Regular Army and DOD avoiding the blame for it, the current set-up would be pretty close to what you'd put in place to achieve it.

                      bugger people about, make them work harder for less/nothing, and tell them they will never be suitable to undertake the role they are training for - apart from getting Shatter to piss on their kids at Christmas, i see little that would be more effective at getting people to leave of their own accord.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                        i think, sadly, that this is the intention - if you wanted the Reserve componant to die off of its own accord with the Regular Army and DOD avoiding the blame for it, the current set-up would be pretty close to what you'd put in place to achieve it.

                        bugger people about, make them work harder for less/nothing, and tell them they will never be suitable to undertake the role they are training for - apart from getting Shatter to piss on their kids at Christmas, i see little that would be more effective at getting people to leave of their own accord.
                        Exactly ! I agree with you're conclusion.

                        Comment


                        • From the other thread.

                          Was this dug up from 12 months ago... this has zero basis in reality ?

                          847. Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl áÓí áÓí asked the Minister for Defence the current strength of the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a

                          statement on the matter. [46318/13]

                          Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter):
                          The military authorities have informed me that while the re-organisation of the Reserve Defence Force
                          following publication of the Value For Money (VFM) Review is at an advanced stage of implementation, it is not yet fully complete.
                          Re-assignment offers have been made to individual members. However, members have the right to appeal these offers and I understand
                          that a number of individuals have done so. In this context and with movement of personnel ongoing, the Deputy will appreciate
                          it is not possible for me to provide accurate data in respect of the statistical information for the current year at this time.
                          I can assure the Deputy that, once the re-assignment process is complete, I will provide the information directly to him.
                          ...............


                          9. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Defence the current arrangements for staff and resources of the FCA; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46642/13]

                          Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: Given the long tradition of the FCA, will the Minister indicate what is the organisation's current role, how many members it has and what resources are available to it?

                          Deputy Alan Shatter: As the Deputy may be aware, a value for money review of the Reserve Defence Force was completed and published in November 2012. It recommended the retention of an Army reserve, previously known as the FCA, and a Naval Service reserve, previously known as An Slua Muirí, with a combined strength of approximately 4,000 personnel and a range of other reforms which together would ensure a viable and cost-effective reserve into the future. A new organisational structure for the Army Reserve and the Naval Service Reserve came into effect at the end of March 2013 and a large number of under-strength units have been consolidated into a smaller number of full strength units. In addition, the way Reserve units are organised has fundamentally changed.

                          Under the new structure, Army units within the Defence Forces have both Permanent Defence Force and Reserve Defence Force components, as opposed to the separate parallel structures that previously were in place. This revised structure has improved access to equipment, expertise and appropriate training for members of the Reserve. It has also allowed for a significant reduction in the number of Permanent Defence Force personnel required to administer and train the Reserve on a full-time basis.
                          The Army Reserve now has an establishment of 3,869 personnel and the Naval Service Reserve has an establishment of 200 personnel. A key issue identified in the value for money review was the high number of reservists who were not meeting minimum levels of paid and unpaid training but were retained in the strength of units. The attainment of required levels of training is an essential requirement and I have ensured there is sufficient paid training to provide for a minimum of seven days paid training for all reservists and sustain recruitment to the Reserve. In this context, the budget available for paid training for members of the Reserve is €3.243 million in 2013. The number of paid training man days available to members of the Reserve has increased from 30,000 in 2012 to 41,500 in 2013.

                          Recruitment to and promotions within the Reserve will be in line with the number of vacancies that arise. A key requirement is to ensure reservists who are no longer active do not block appointments within the new organisation. This is a critical factor in ensuring the vitality of units and it is being addressed as part of the implementation process.

                          Ultimately, the recommendations of the value for money review that are being implemented are intended to enhance the overall capacity of the Defence Forces to deal with a broad range of contingencies. I am determined that the current reforms will be given every opportunity to succeed. I convey my appreciation to the many deeply committed members of the Reserve Defence Force and the Permanent Defence Force who are at the sharp end of the current reforms and will ultimately deliver the enhanced capabilities that are of such importance.

                          Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: All change causes confusion and upset, the level of which will depend on the ability of the individual in question to cope with change. I know people who have been members of the FCA for a considerable period, probably most of their adult lives. Were members of the FCA, namely, those who experienced the changes, consulted as part of the process? Change may be fine for new entrants, given that the system is new to them, but the issue is how those who have given 20, 30 or many more years' service feel and the extent of their engagement with the new process.

                          Deputy Alan Shatter: The changes introduced were of crucial importance. One of the difficulties with the Reserve Defence Force is that a significant number of its members do not participate in paid training days. It is very important that we have a Reserve Defence Force that is fit for purpose and can engage with and assist the Permanent Defence Force when required. The new reforms we have introduced are designed to achieve a more integrated approach as between the Reserve and the Permanent Defence Force.

                          As I stated, I very much appreciate the contribution made by the many members of the Reserve Defence Force who have been engaged with the force for many years. The decisions on implementation of the changes have been made and there has been engagement with members of the Reserve. While I am advised that matters are developing very well, I remain concerned that we have numbers of individuals in the Reserve Defence Force who made a contribution in the past but are no longer active. I am anxious that, in the context of the Reserve Defence Force, we recruit some new young people who have the energy and desire to make a contribution and that those who are still members but no longer able to engage or make a contribution by participating in training days consider how best to approach matters to ensure the Reserve Defence Force is as effective as possible.

                          Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: On those who are no longer active, will the Minister outline what role he envisages they could play in the future of the FCA? Perhaps they might be involved in a mentoring scheme for younger people entering the Reserve Defence Force? There is still a strong loyalty to the FCA among this group.

                          Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I understand the official title is no longer the FCA but the Reserve Defence Force. Has the title changed?

                          Deputy Alan Shatter: Yes, the title is the Reserve Defence Force.

                          Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: The reason I ask is that the Reserve Defence Forces Representative Association made a presentation to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Defence in which it outlined its concerns. Its representatives expertly addressed the issues that have resulted in the depletion of the Reserve Defence Force. The association is seeking a meeting with the Minister. Has he met its representatives since the changes were implemented? Has he listened to their concerns and, if so, will he act on them?

                          Deputy Alan Shatter: While I have not recently met representatives of the association, I met them in or around the time of the meeting to which the Deputy referred. I am always happy to meet the organisation. This is never an issue and I am not aware of an outstanding request for a meeting. If its representatives wish to meet me, I would be happy to meet them.

                          To address Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's que
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                          Comment


                          • FCA? What the fcuk?
                            I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                            Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                            Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                            And whistled early with the lark.

                            In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                            With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                            He put a bullet through his brain.
                            And no one spoke of him again.

                            You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                            Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                            Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                            The hell where youth and laughter go.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Buck View Post
                              FCA? What the fcuk?
                              The AR and NSR since 2005 (FCA and ASM 1946-2005)

                              The AR/NSR/FCA/ASM has been the Second Line Reserve element of the Reserve Defence Force since at least 1954.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                The AR and NSR since 2005 (FCA and ASM 1946-2005)

                                The AR/NSR/FCA/ASM has been the Second Line Reserve element of the Reserve Defence Force since at least 1954.
                                I soooooo hope this is sarcasm
                                I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                                Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                                Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                                And whistled early with the lark.

                                In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                                With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                                He put a bullet through his brain.
                                And no one spoke of him again.

                                You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                                Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                                Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                                The hell where youth and laughter go.

                                Comment

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