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  1. #76
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Lots of questions due to the Minister tomorrow, some could help answer this thread:

    2.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if there are plans to impose paycuts for personnel serving at any level within the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Joe Costello. [3500/09]

    6. To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding the proposed awareness and recruitment campaign for the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Michael D. Higgins. [3502/09]

    11.
    To ask the Minister for Defence his proposals to introduce a conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Thomas P. Broughan. [3498/09]

    14.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if he has received recommendations and a proposed plan of action with respect to the first line reserve on foot of the proposals that have been prepared by the military authorities; if not, when he expects to receive them; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted on these recommendations and proposed plan of action before mplementation; when such consultations will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Kieran O'Donnell. [3594/09]

    23.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding members of the Reserve Defence Forces who wish to serve abroad; if he expects that such personnel will be able to serve abroad during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Eamon Gilmore. [3501/09]

    24.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to continue the ongoing policy of recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force through regular targeted recruitment campaigns. — Pat Rabbitte. [3518/09]

    30.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if the Defence Forces representative associations have been consulted on the terms and conditions under which members of the Reserve Defence Forces will serve overseas; if agreement has been reached with the representative associations as a result of this consultation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — P. J. Sheehan. [3601/09]

    35.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if work has commenced on preparing the second White Paper on Defence; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted during the preparatory phase; if they will be consulted on the Draft White Paper before it is presented to Government for approval; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Charles Flanagan. [3615/09]

    40.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to fully execute the Reserve Defence Forces implementation plan by the 2009 target. — Ruairı´ Quinn. [3517/09]

    41.
    To ask the Minister for Defence further to Parliamentary Question No. 73 of 26 November 2008, the progress that has made in providing for the service of members of the Reserve Defence Forces on overseas duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — David Stanton. [3486/09]

    48.
    To ask the Minister for Defence when he expects to publish the White Paper on Defence for the period 2011 to 2020 promised in the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Ro´ isı´n Shortall. [3515/09]

  2. #77
    jang-a-lang turbocalves's Avatar
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    The first quality of a soldier is to suffer fatigue and endure, courage is merely second. Want and privation are the home of a good soldier,

    Napoleon Bonaparte,

    to put it another way

    train as ya mean to fight...
    But there's no danger
    It's a professional career
    Though it could be arranged
    With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
    If you're out of luck you're out of work
    We could send you to johannesburg.

    (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

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  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by concussion View Post
    The problem again is that you will never,ever have the same class week after week

    people dnt want to put up with the boredom/bullshit that goes on every week in the RDF.

    the average age group of recruits and privates is 17-21 have a commitment of 2hours a week to the RDF.

    contrast that with the same age group(maybe even the same people) and their commitments to a GAA or soccar team, prob 2 nights of 2hours training. Double that of the RDF.

    I can gaurentee you that there is a far superior attendance rate for the sport than that of the reserve. Why? fulfillment and fun.

    the RDF doesnt offer what a sports team can(even though it easily should). training with a team is a laugh and offers instant fullfillment. turning up to most RDF training nights involves bordom and frustration for most troops. The same old same old is repeated over and over. training NCO's arnt consistent from week to week nor are the lessons. Sports teams train with their eye on the next game so therefore have something to aim for. RDF units have no cohesion and no goals so therefore no gratification like the sunday morning match does.

    ever notice the increase in attendance coming up t camp? bingo, something worthwhile to work for

  5. #79
    Cut backs luchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Lots of questions due to the Minister tomorrow, some could help answer this thread:
    Potential answers

    2.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if there are plans to impose paycuts for personnel serving at any level within the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Joe Costello. [3500/09]

    Any cuts will be within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners

    6. To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding the proposed awareness and recruitment campaign for the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Michael D. Higgins. [3502/09]

    That will be reviewed in due time by my department within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners

    11.
    To ask the Minister for Defence his proposals to introduce a conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Thomas P. Broughan. [3498/09]

    That is not needed as any matters brought to C&A by the PDF automatically effect the RDF.

    14.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if he has received recommendations and a proposed plan of action with respect to the first line reserve on foot of the proposals that have been prepared by the military authorities; if not, when he expects to receive them; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted on these recommendations and proposed plan of action before mplementation; when such consultations will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Kieran O'Donnell. [3594/09]

    The matter will be dealt with within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners.

    23.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding members of the Reserve Defence Forces who wish to serve abroad; if he expects that such personnel will be able to serve abroad during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Eamon Gilmore. [3501/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    24.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to continue the ongoing policy of recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force through regular targeted recruitment campaigns. — Pat Rabbitte. [3518/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    30.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if the Defence Forces representative associations have been consulted on the terms and conditions under which members of the Reserve Defence Forces will serve overseas; if agreement has been reached with the representative associations as a result of this consultation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — P. J. Sheehan. [3601/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    35.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if work has commenced on preparing the second White Paper on Defence; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted during the preparatory phase; if they will be consulted on the Draft White Paper before it is presented to Government for approval; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Charles Flanagan. [3615/09]

    The draft white paper is being considered at a high level within my department. All considerations will be given to matters arising from consultation with the representative associations.

    40.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to fully execute the Reserve Defence Forces implementation plan by the 2009 target. — Ruairı´ Quinn. [3517/09]

    Matters are already at an advanced stage and will be completed as far as possible with within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners.

    41.
    To ask the Minister for Defence further to Parliamentary Question No. 73 of 26 November 2008, the progress that has made in providing for the service of members of the Reserve Defence Forces on overseas duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — David Stanton. [3486/09]

    Same answer as Q23

    48.
    To ask the Minister for Defence when he expects to publish the White Paper on Defence for the period 2011 to 2020 promised in the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Ro´ isı´n Shortall. [3515/09][/quote]

    When white paper will be published when all parties with whom we are consulting have given it their due consideration.

    Just the my own thoughts on the essance of the answers that will be given. Odds are that the actual answers will be much longer but will they say any more?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  6. #80
    CQMS sgt's Avatar
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    well judging by the cutback savings of €140 million annoced today on Defense Equipment i reckon the RDF future is very bleak indeed now. bby, bye to the personal issue wet gear
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate every one equally.

  7. #81
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Was looking for something else and came across the following list from the White Paper on the problems with the RDF:
    The main issues identified are:

    In common with many voluntary organisations, the FCA and Slua Muirí are experiencing increasing difficulty in recruiting new members (annual recruitment has fallen to about half of the 1994 level) and retaining trained personnel. No Change or worse

    The quality of training varies across the country. Has improved on an individual basis but not collective


    There are about 14,000 members in the RDF and just over 50% of members attend annual training camp each year. Has improved mainly due to getting rid of discharges & posting to the non-effective list but also the amount of mandays


    The RDF has little or no presence in some major urban areas. Presence has been cut in some areas


    Many reservists serve only for a short period. This can lead to an over-emphasis on repetitive, basic, induction-type training for all members. No Change or plan to change it as far as I know


    The recruitment process is not always targeted at individuals likely to give long and useful service or provide valuable, scarce skills. No Change


    The PDF cadre personnel who support the RDF have not been rotated sufficiently. No Change

    There is some ambiguity regarding the role of the RDF - this can have an adverse effect on morale. Roles given but no chance to fulfill them really, poor morale continues to be a major problem


    The role of the Slua Muirí (as currently configured) in a contingency is difficult to envisage. Has changed for the better


    Training methodologies are rigid and excessively focused on long periods of continuous training, while access to specialist and collective training is limited. Types of training has increased, collective training still hasn't but still way to focussed on FTT


    Some units of the Reserve are not structured in accordance with standard military doctrine. Fixed but still widely dispersed


    There are shortages of certain resources, especially specialist military equipment. No change


    There are problems in accessing RDF equipment, especially in rural areas. No Change o


    These weaknesses have contributed to a growing level of dissatisfaction among members of the RDF. Excedingly worse!
    The plan for the RDF will create a new RDF with the following hallmarks:

    A clearer contingency defence role. Done but no chance to do it

    An improved and more consistent organisational structure. Done & improved

    An enhanced relationship with the PDF and the affiliation of RDF units and the integration of RDF sub-units with appropriate PDF units. Depends on the unit, some have some no change

    More and better quality training. More FTT, quality varies

    Improved equipment. Some in small quantities

    Opportunities to serve on overseas peace support operations. TBC

    An increase in resourcing. In some areas eg FTT

    Retention of the traditional strengths and features of the organisation, especially the spirit of voluntary service. Not 100%, I'd say much of the voluntary ethos is gone due to the amount of FTT being done, people are joining to do camps

    Overall, a better value for money reserve defence capability. Debatable considering the above
    Last edited by DeV; 3rd February 2009 at 17:47.

  8. #82
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luchi View Post
    Potential answers

    2.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if there are plans to impose paycuts for personnel serving at any level within the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Joe Costello. [3500/09]

    Any cuts will be within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners

    6. To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding the proposed awareness and recruitment campaign for the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Michael D. Higgins. [3502/09]

    That will be reviewed in due time by my department within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners

    11.
    To ask the Minister for Defence his proposals to introduce a conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Thomas P. Broughan. [3498/09]

    That is not needed as any matters brought to C&A by the PDF automatically effect the RDF.

    14.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if he has received recommendations and a proposed plan of action with respect to the first line reserve on foot of the proposals that have been prepared by the military authorities; if not, when he expects to receive them; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted on these recommendations and proposed plan of action before mplementation; when such consultations will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Kieran O'Donnell. [3594/09]

    The matter will be dealt with within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners.

    23.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding members of the Reserve Defence Forces who wish to serve abroad; if he expects that such personnel will be able to serve abroad during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Eamon Gilmore. [3501/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    24.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to continue the ongoing policy of recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force through regular targeted recruitment campaigns. — Pat Rabbitte. [3518/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    30.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if the Defence Forces representative associations have been consulted on the terms and conditions under which members of the Reserve Defence Forces will serve overseas; if agreement has been reached with the representative associations as a result of this consultation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — P. J. Sheehan. [3601/09]

    That is a matter for the MA but it is my belief that such matters are already at an advanced stage.

    35.
    To ask the Minister for Defence if work has commenced on preparing the second White Paper on Defence; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted during the preparatory phase; if they will be consulted on the Draft White Paper before it is presented to Government for approval; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Charles Flanagan. [3615/09]

    The draft white paper is being considered at a high level within my department. All considerations will be given to matters arising from consultation with the representative associations.

    40.
    To ask the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the Programme for Government to fully execute the Reserve Defence Forces implementation plan by the 2009 target. — Ruairı´ Quinn. [3517/09]

    Matters are already at an advanced stage and will be completed as far as possible with within the framework agreed by the governmemt and the social partners.

    41.
    To ask the Minister for Defence further to Parliamentary Question No. 73 of 26 November 2008, the progress that has made in providing for the service of members of the Reserve Defence Forces on overseas duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — David Stanton. [3486/09]

    Same answer as Q23

    48.
    To ask the Minister for Defence when he expects to publish the White Paper on Defence for the period 2011 to 2020 promised in the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Ro´ isı´n Shortall. [3515/09]
    When white paper will be published when all parties with whom we are consulting have given it their due consideration.

    Just the my own thoughts on the essance of the answers that will be given. Odds are that the actual answers will be much longer but will they say any more?
    You can remove any reference to social partners there. Vibe is the Unions will be withdrawing from partnership. If not tomorrow, then soon.

  9. #83
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Ah.... ICTU lose the cosy arrangements ?


    As soon as things go bad they give up on partnership ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  10. #84
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Luchi are you running as a TD for Limerick?

  11. #85
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Ah.... ICTU lose the cosy arrangements ?


    As soon as things go bad they give up on partnership ?
    Partnership does not mean "here are the proposals, whether you agree to them or not we will be going ahead with them on tuesday, but I'd like you to rubberstamp them before then."

    I do think that ICTU have their own agenda, and throughout the process, the smaller unions have suffered as a result, being a bit like the small guy who hides behind the big guy when the bully is about.

  12. #86
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    ICTU agenda (as with all of the unions) is to get the best possible deal for their members - that is the job of a union. I'm sure that the SFA, Government & other interest groups have their own agendas as well.

  13. #87
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ICTU agenda (as with all of the unions) is to get the best possible deal for their members - that is the job of a union. I'm sure that the SFA, Government & other interest groups have their own agendas as well.
    WRONG!!

    The ICTU (Irish Congress of Trade UNIONS) will have the agenda of the largest union in congress, at the expense of the others. This is not always in the best interests of the smaller unions, who have no choice but to go along with congress. SIPTU members will have different priorities to CPSU, IMPACT or TUI, or even PSEU

  14. #88
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Some light

    109. Deputy Michael D. Higgins Information Zoom asked the Minister for Defence Information Zoom the position regarding the proposed awareness and recruitment campaign for the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3502/09]

    127. Deputy Pat Rabbitte Information Zoom asked the Minister for Defence Information Zoom the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the programme for Government to continue the ongoing policy of recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force through regular targeted recruitment campaigns. [3518/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Information Zoom I propose to take Questions Nos. 109 and 127 together.

    The Government decision of 8th July 2008 set out a requirement for savings to be achieved across the public sector. In this context, the recruitment and awareness campaign planned for 2008 for the Reserve Defence Force was postponed. There are no plans to initiate a central recruitment and awareness campaign in the current year.

    The Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan outlined a range of measures to improve the capabilities of the Reserve over the period to end 2009. All of the elements of the Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation plan were identified as being important motivators for recruitment and retention of members of the Reserve and significant progress has been made to date in implementing the plan provisions.

    The decision to postpone the recruitment and awareness campaign was not taken lightly. It is intended to re-visit this important project when the prevailing budgetary situation permits.

    Recruitment to the Reserve will continue. However, this will be kept under review in light of the prevailing budgetary situation.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  15. #89
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    117. Deputy Kieran O’Donnell Information Zoom asked the Minister for Defence Information Zoom if he has received recommendations and a proposed plan of action with respect to the first line reserve on foot of the proposals that have been prepared by the military authorities; if not, when he expects to receive them; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted on these recommendations and proposed plan of action before implementation; when such consultations will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3594/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Information Zoom The Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation plan provides for a phased approach to enhancing the capabilities of the Reserve over the period to the end of 2009. The introduction of new RDF organisational structures, the development of new training syllabi, improved equipment and clothing have successfully been delivered as part of Phase 1 of the Implementation Plan.

    Phase 2 of the Plan is currently being implemented and in line with the Implementation plan timeframe, proposals with respect to the First Line Reserve have been prepared by the Military Authorities. My Department has been discussing the development of the FLR with the military authorities and further information has been sought in relation to the proposals. I look forward to reviewing the recommendations and a proposed plan of action in due course.

    The Implementation Group will develop the timeframe for the implementation of recommendations as soon as these have been agreed. The representative associations will be consulted prior to any implementation of recommendations.

    Development of the First Line Reserve is also included in the Modernisation Agenda agreed with the Defence Forces Representative Associations in the context of Towards 2016 and will be advanced accordingly.

    My primary objective is to ensure that the experience and knowledge of the former Permanent Defence Force personnel of the First Line Reserve is utilised for the maximum benefit of the Defence Forces.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  16. #90
    Cut backs luchi's Avatar
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    lot of hot air really, isn't it.

    One thing, can any #one tell me wht the words "information zoom" appear after someone's name?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  17. #91
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    because I can't be arsed to edit the XML fragments out from a copy-and-paste of oireachtas.ie
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  18. #92
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    [QUOTE=trellheim;237805]117.Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Implementation Group will develop the timeframe for the implementation of recommendations as soon as these have been agreed. The representative associations will be consulted prior to any implementation of recommendations. QUOTE]

    It's not so long since the Representative Association was consulted about another matter (Grat 2008), and we witnessed a u-turn.

    And will the RA be consulted, or insulted?

  19. #93
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Steyr Fan;237845]
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    117.Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Implementation Group will develop the timeframe for the implementation of recommendations as soon as these have been agreed. The representative associations will be consulted prior to any implementation of recommendations. QUOTE]

    It's not so long since the Representative Association was consulted about another matter (Grat 2008), and we witnessed a u-turn.

    And will the RA be consulted, or insulted?
    It is the FLR they are talking about, it will be PDFORRA & RACO he will be talking to!

  20. #94
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    why ? once they're out of the PDF they can't be in RACO or PDFORRA.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  21. #95
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    [QUOTE=DeV;237862]
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Fan View Post

    It is the FLR they are talking about, it will be PDFORRA & RACO he will be talking to!
    As with lots of statements from the authorities, there is ambiguity and confusion. WOD said the 'Represenative Associations'; as the FLR are no longer in the PDF (they are Reservists), how can they be represented by either of the Permenant representative associations? For that matter, how can they be represented by the Reserve representative association either? Unless they pay membership, and join the association?:confused::confused::confused:

  22. #96
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It would be PDFORRA & RACO as it part of the contracts that members of PDF sign (and it would probably involve changes to said contracts).

  23. #97
    jang-a-lang turbocalves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docman View Post
    No, it is just you using anecdotal evidence.:wink:

    Anecdotal evidence - well entire college courses are built around how to back up arguments. You can't write a serious college paper unless you can properly back it up.

    Basically, your anecdotal evidence is that of merely 1 small part of the overall scenario. You have no idea what are the circumstances confronting the senior NCOs, officers, other Corps. It is easy, but unproductive, to make a judgement based on your own personal experiences with little or no knowledge of the overall situation.

    As for being unable to back up an argument with nothing other than anecdotal evidence.... doesn't make for a argument that will last 5 mins against any type of scrutiny.
    but this isnt a college course this is a discussion board made up of peoples individual experiences and input, and evidence has to be anecdotal as to be too specific can be construed as opsec, as if i backed up everything as well as an academic work i'd be screwed by the mods,

    and my problem is that everytime somebody expresses an opinion or talks about there own experiences, which may or may not make others look less professional or enthusiastic you get upset, which is a bit rich as you have made claims on other threads without backin them up,

    as for little or know information of the over all picture, i generally get to see a lot of the stuff up the chain from my little corner of the world as my BS is a man of the people so to speak and believes in keepin his NCO's in the loop, the same applies to the ooficers in my unit, also i have friends in other corps and units, and lastly theres plenty of info on IMO here so maybe its presumptous of me to believe i ahve an idea of whats goin, but i reckon i have some sort of idea as what goin on,
    But there's no danger
    It's a professional career
    Though it could be arranged
    With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
    If you're out of luck you're out of work
    We could send you to johannesburg.

    (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

  24. #98
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    So integration has been killked off , well at least that was the announcement today .
    Anyone hear why ?
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  25. #99
    Faeces idem Dies Diversus Traumagod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie View Post
    So integration has been killked off , well at least that was the announcement today .
    Anyone hear why ?
    where and when and exactly what was the announcement???????
    Go Mairid?*s Beo

  26. #100
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    kilkenny barracks, couple of people who had applied for this years pln were told, the concept is being re examined they were told. mind you could just be the 3 bn integration programme being affected.
    Anyone need a spleen ?

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