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  • Originally posted by luchi View Post
    People on the PNCO crse have been hearing rumours about pay difficulties since April.
    Should people on the PNCO course be payed for the weekends or whats the story there?

    Comment


    • Is the PNCO course paid? If a PNCO is doing his weekend training, his summer camp with his unit (Paid) will he be paid for the rest of the phases he has to complete?
      Train Hard Fight Easy!!!!

      Comment


      • No course is "Paid" per se; you will not see that on the syllabus. Best you will see is "Period of Full Time Training" . Units conducting courses are authorized to expend mandays on them.

        Unit COs currently have strict rules enforcing how many mandays per person are allowed; if you are on a course AND going on Summer camp then you are a rarity and I'd be careful that one or the other doesn't get suddenly pulled from you.
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • The chances of a course plus annual camp are slim and the decision rests with D Reserve not your unit.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            The chances of a course plus annual camp are slim and the decision rests with D Reserve not your unit.
            I mean just the course itself without the camp with your unit.

            If your doing solely just the Pot's course do you get paid for just the 2 weeks FTT or do you get paid for the weekends as well?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by amurph0 View Post
              I mean just the course itself without the camp with your unit.

              If your doing solely just the Pot's course do you get paid for just the 2 weeks FTT or do you get paid for the weekends as well?
              The PNCO weekends were paid last year, but don't think they are this year.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dev
                Another rumour about that course is that they are getting it easy to try and have them all pass so that they can be held up as an example of the "excellence of training" in the RDF.
                How do you mean?
                How exactly I don't know.
                But what has been said is that there is a conspicious lack of drop outs.
                As I said rumous abound. There is always rumours. This one probably started because some one felt that the person sent on the course wasn't good enaough and rather admit they were good enough, the course gets slated as not tough enough.

                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The chances of a course plus annual camp are slim and the decision rests with D Reserve not your unit.
                But some are. I know a couple of cooks that have been asked to do up to 4 weeks and that doesn't include the weeks FTT they are currently doing.
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • ANSWER in The DAIL 7th JULY 2010.

                  Reserve Defence Force

                  24. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence his plans to reform the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on matter. [30356/10]

                  Deputy Tony Killeen: The current White Paper on Defence 2000 outlined the overall strategy for the development of the Reserve Defence Force, RDF. This was based on the report of a special steering group established by the then Minister for Defence in January 1998. The steering group directed the work of a military board, which carried out a comprehensive review of the RDF. The process involved extensive consultation with stakeholders, including the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association, RDFRA, and members of the reserve.

                  The development strategy outlined in the White Paper led to the RDF review implementation plan, which has provided for the phased development of the reserve’s capabilities in recent years. The plan outlined a series of steps that were designed to enhance RDF capabilities and improve interoperability with the Permanent Defence Force, PDF. These steps included re-organisation, improved training, enhanced working relationships with PDF units and improved equipment. In accordance with the plan, the reserve has been re-organised, new equipment, clothing and opportunities for improved training have been delivered and a revised training strategy is in place. These improvements represent a positive advancement for the reserve.

                  The plan also provided for the development of an integrated element of the reserve. This element was to integrate and train with the PDF. A pilot integration programme was introduced in 2007 and extended into 2008, but the numbers participating in these pilots were disappointing and this element of the plan has not achieved the intended results. Plans to send members of the reserve overseas were progressed, but postponed in light of the moratorium on recruitment to the public service. There are no plans to send members of the Reserve Defence Forces overseas in the foreseeable future.

                  As the Reserve Defence Forces review implementation plan has reached the end of its timeframe, there is a requirement to critically examine the approach that has been made to date to consider options for the future development of the reserve. A value for money review of the Reserve Defence Forces commenced in February this year. The steering committee overseeing this review has an independent chair in line with Department of Finance guidelines for such reviews. As part of the review process, the steering group committee will be engaging in stakeholder consultation on a phased basis. I understand that as part of this process it has recently written to the representative associations, inviting submissions. The findings of the value for money review, including the lessons learned through the RDF implementation plan process, will complement the development of a new White Paper on defence which will commence in the near future. This will ensure that further development of the reserve is appropriately informed by the lessons of the past and requirements for the future.


                  Deputy Brian O’Shea: Will the Minister not agree it is serious that the full complement in the Reserve Defence Forces on 1 January 2009 was 7,671, and had dropped to 6,394 by 31 March this year, a loss of 1,277? The McCarthy an bord snip nua report has been described by the chairperson of the representative association of the Reserve Defence Forces as a “sword of Damocles”. The report recommended a reduction both in budget and personnel strength of two-thirds. I understand an undertaking was given that this would not happen, yet the number of man days allocated to the Reserve Defence Forces this year has reduced by 31,000, effectively a two-thirds reduction on the 2008 usage.

                  I realise the review is ongoing, stakeholders are being consulted and so on. However, the situation continues to deteriorate and positive signals need to be sent to the Reserve Defence Forces to the effect that there will not be further cuts this year. Any further cuts would do enormous damage to morale. Essentially, I am asking the Minister to send strong signals that he sees a real future for the Reserve Defence Forces and indicating that he wants to develop them. Very importantly, and we agree on this, in terms of the functions they carry out, they should be reassured, and it is possible for them to interface effectively with the community at large in a whole myriad of areas.


                  Deputy Tony Killeen: I agree with Deputy O’Shea in regard to the latter point. I have had some experience as regards the Reserve Defence Forces over the last three months since my appointment and I have been looking at the various recommendations that arose along the way. It seems to me that by and large, as regards the recommendations that came forward, at least a positive attempt was made to implement them. The pilot scheme is a particularly good example of something that did not work out in the manner that was anticipated.

                  The issue of paid training days and that of the McCarthy report seem to me to come somewhat further along, although it is highly unlikely that either is positive, quite frankly, in terms of their impact on the reserve. Nevertheless, the drop in numbers and the lack of interest in the reserve, if that is what we are seeing, seems to pre-date both of those by a considerable period. I agree with Deputy O’Shea that there is a considerable challenge there. Last weekend I was out with the Naval Reserve in Kilrush bay and I was very impressed with the equipment, training and so on. I visited Lahinch barracks where there was a communications and information training week. The quality of the equipment was far beyond anything to which I could aspire to knowing anything much about. I was very impressed by the commitment of the people to learning about this, and of course, in their civilian employment they know a considerable amount about such equipment in any event. I attended the annual conference and heard exactly what Deputy O’Shea has been saying about the concerns current activists in the reserve have about this area.

                  I believe we can send a positive signal in this House. One of the opportunities to do that will be the White Paper, which will be coming up later in the year.


                  Deputy Brian O’Shea: I have two final points. One is the issue which is of great concern to the representative association, that is, the appointment of a brigadier general to head up the organisation. My understanding of the Minister’s responses to me on that was to the effect that he had no particular objection to this, off the top of his head. This is something that can be addressed on its own because, while no reflection on any individuals, there is the issue that the Reserve Defence Forces are being headed up by a member of another organisation, whereas if a member of the general staff was involved that would be a different matter.

                  I believe the whole issue of being able to serve overseas would be an added incentive towards getting young people to join the Reserve Defence Forces. That aspect was postponed because of financial considerations but there are areas in the Permanent Defence Force, mechanics, engineers and so on - not troops in the firing line, as such but rather people involved in the back-up services - which are worthy of focus. I believe there is considerable scope here and that this is worthy of examination.


                  Deputy Tony Killeen: If I appear unenthusiastic about the idea of a brigadier general, it is partly because it seems that many of the recommendations regarding the reserve that have been implemented do not appear to have brought about the positive results people had hoped for. I have an open mind on this but I am a good deal short of being convinced that it will address what seems to me to be much more fundamentally difficulty. With regard to overseas service, I understand the ban on recruitment was one of the factors, as well as the financial ones mentioned by Deputy O’Shea. However, it seems to be the case that were that opportunity available a number of those concerned would be interested in pursuing it.

                  Comment


                  • Just wondering has anyone heard rumours etc of when recruitment might recommence? Or is it still up in the air...?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Establishment is 11,500. Authorised strength was 10,500 (plus 250 in training). Authorised strength is now 10,000 (I presume).
                      Saw a few old documents last night when having a clear out.


                      PwC recommended a DF of 10,033 - ie the 2 brigade model.

                      Comment


                      • Here is my model for future of the Army Reserve

                        All units should be integrated

                        i.e. A Coy X Bn will have 2 PDF platoons and 1 RDF platoon, X Gun bty will have 2 PDF Btys and I RDF Bty etc...


                        Artillery *3 = 99
                        Cavalry * 3 = 99
                        Medical * 3 = 99
                        Transport * 3 = 99
                        CIS * 3 = 99
                        MP * 3 = 99
                        Engineers * 3 = 99
                        AD * 3 = 99
                        Logs Sp * 3 = 99
                        Bde HQ * 3 = 99
                        BTC * 3 = 99

                        Total = 999

                        Battalion

                        A Coy – 33
                        B Coy – 33
                        C Coy – 33
                        D Coy – 33
                        HQ Coy – 33
                        Bn HQ – 6

                        Total – 171 personnel

                        171 * 3 * 3 = 1539

                        RDF Total should be 2538 give or take a few bods

                        The whole recruitment process needs to be centralised and mirror the PDF i.e. interview / suitability testing and fitness tests are paramount to the overall viability of the future recruit.

                        Examination of all 2/3 Stars passing out will be conducted by School personnel i.e. Medical school will test Medics, Artillery School will test Gunners, and this will result in a better standard of soldier which could be suitable for overseas service.

                        A massive cost saving would result if all rural RDF units were closed, ie RDF units would not exist outside of permanent occupied barracks

                        All field days and weekends should be paid.
                        Last edited by Liachta Cultaca; 27 July 2010, 17:20.
                        I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

                        Comment


                        • You forgot about the engineers.

                          Comment


                          • Ok thanks I have now included Engineers
                            I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
                              Here is my model for future of the Army Reserve

                              All units should be integrated

                              i.e. A Coy X Bn will have 2 PDF platoons and 1 RDF platoon, X Gun bty will have 2 PDF Btys and I RDF Bty etc...


                              Artillery *3 = 99
                              Cavalry * 3 = 99
                              Medical * 3 = 99
                              CIS * 3 = 99
                              MP * 3 = 99
                              Logs Sp * 3 = 99
                              Bde HQ * 3 = 99
                              BTC * 3 = 99

                              Total = 792

                              Battalion

                              A Coy – 33
                              B Coy – 33
                              C Coy – 33
                              D Coy – 33
                              HQ Coy – 33
                              Bn HQ – 6

                              Total – 171 personnel

                              171 * 3 * 3 = 1539

                              RDF Total should be 2331 give or take a few bods

                              The whole recruitment process needs to be centralised and mirror the PDF i.e. interview / suitability testing and fitness tests are paramount to the overall viability of the future recruit.

                              Examination of all 2/3 Stars passing out will be conducted by School personnel i.e. Medical school will test Medics, Artillery School will test Gunners, and this will result in a better standard of soldier which could be suitable for overseas service.

                              A massive cost saving would result if all rural RDF units were closed, ie RDF units would not exist outside of permanent occupied barracks

                              All field days and weekends should be paid.
                              Would it not be better to have an RDF Coy within a PDF Bn? Cause going by your model, there's only going to be 1 RDF Officer within each Coy and even at that it's only an Lt.

                              Plus, a PDF Bn doesn't have 5 Coy's.

                              Have an RDF Rifle Coy integrated into a PDF Bn. It's training plan for the year follows the plan as laid out by the Bn CO at the start of the year. It's FTT for the year would be the Bn or Brigade Ex. and a week of LFTT with the Bn. After that, courses relevant to the Coy are made availale with a set number of positions put aside for RDF troops.

                              Obviously the plan needs a lot of work but IMO an RDF Coy would work better than Platoon's dotted through the Bn.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kermit
                                Corps Platoons/Troops do not have the same number of personnel as Infantry Rifle Platoons. Where are you getting C & D Coys from? Who would they be integrated with? What about Sp Coy?
                                The break down of the Battalion into 6 companys was from CS4, I admit I missed Sp Coy but the methodology would be the same

                                They would be integrated with your PDF parent unit.
                                Last edited by Liachta Cultaca; 27 July 2010, 17:47.
                                I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

                                Comment

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