Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    Serve in-addition, or on probation until they can reach a minimum standard, which will need to be met annually, e.g. Medical, Grade II or III ITs, PASS Steyr, GPMG, SRAAW Range practices, plus take part in the annual training.

    Where I see a problem is in Sgts and Above, what do you do with them ?
    But who is going to train them?

    They should say, from x everyone parades in barracks. Everyone on probation for a 3 month period, for people who haven't paraded in those 3 months or have an extension from the unit - either non-effective (for max 18 months/TOE) or "Services no longer required".

    Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
    I still think there would be a need for CS,CQ and Lt /Captain the integrated model just
    no other ranks, this is for the greater good of the majority.
    With integration as what was supposed to happen (see CS4):

    The max rank you could get would be lieutenant & sergant in some of the corps (with a very small number of exceptions).

    There were very few places for commandants, a few more for captains. The same for CSs & CQMSs, there was 1 BSM and no BQMSs at all.

    Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
    The CS would look after the A Admin, CQ would look after the Q Admin

    The Lt / Capt would be Platoon / Company Commander

    If you think that the PDF CQ and CS should look after this I agree, but I was just thinking from a backing perspective of this model we might need to incorporate these ranks.

    The role would in imho would be better served by the PDF CQ and CS.
    Well if you are going down the route of integrated platoon as part of coy, there will be no RDF CS or CQ, the CS & CQ of the coy will be their CQ & CS.

    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Thats not going to work for a start given there are nine officer appointments alone in Cavalry squadron alone.
    What LC was saying was 99 in total (RDF in Cavalry Corps), he has just over estimated the numbers in a troop.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ZULU View Post
      Just to give some background -

      Currently Royal Marines Reserve have 48 members mobilised in support of operations in Afghanistan.

      39 deployed with 40 Cmdo
      3 with MSSG conducting CIMIC Ops
      2 in mentoring roles
      1 supporting SF Operations

      A further 36 are on Full Time Reserve Service in the Corp
      Was thinking about this recently.

      In addition to the above a staggering 70% of the Royal Marines Reserve has deployed for 6 months on Operations since 2003.

      The Royal Marines have about 7,500 personnel with the addition of about 750-800 Royal Marines Reserve

      I plugged some very rough figures into the spread sheet I created and churned out some figures.

      Note the 50 paid mandays. This is based on a fri/sat/sun training weekend per month in addition to 14 days FTT conducted in a centralised training centre like the curragh with its various schools.

      The Royal Marines Reserve have 5 detachments training in 24 centres across the UK. This works out about a Pln strength per centre.

      Recruits go through the same enlistment process as the regulars, the same 3 day selection course and after each phase of basic training must pass the exact same standard of tests the regular forces complete.
      To earn the Green Beret, they must pass the exact same Commando tests. 9mile speed march in 90min, Tarzan assault course, endurance course and 30miles across the brecons in under 8hrs.

      Attached Files
      Last edited by ZULU; 9 September 2010, 01:04.
      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

      Comment


      • Great figures but dream on.
        Without supplies no army is brave.

        —Frederick the Great,

        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

        Comment


        • Originally posted by luchi View Post
          Great figures but dream on.
          I know. Meets the budget, advances reservists training and standards as well as pay

          but will decimate the Cadre allowances and positions for PDF - go figure
          "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

          Comment


          • FCA of the 80s versus AR of 2010

            From looking at unit historys it looks as if the FCA was more active in the 80s

            Numbers parading were a lot higher

            There were more units

            There was more cadre

            Equipment & clothing is better now



            Maybe going back to 80s may not be a thing to fear (apart from clothing & equipment)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              FCA of the 80s versus AR of 2010

              From looking at unit historys it looks as if the FCA was more active in the 80s

              Numbers parading were a lot higher

              There were more units

              There was more cadre

              Equipment & clothing is better now



              Maybe going back to 80s may not be a thing to fear (apart from clothing & equipment)
              The "need" (as some people put it) for high numbers is the whole issue. Quality and retention far out weighs quantity and high rates of turn over.

              Key Cadre positions filled by people who actually want to progress the organisation is key, rather than loads of positions being filled by people who are in it for the allowances.

              Its not like there isn't any working models of reserve forces out there. Just copy the format, adapt it to specific conditions and effect it.
              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                The "need" (as some people put it) for high numbers is the whole issue. Quality and retention far out weighs quantity and high rates of turn over.
                Quality - absolutely required
                Retention - see above and will lead to higher numbers
                "High" numbers - sorry but required, I don't mean having a establishment figure of 10000 (but yet your (trully) effective strength is 2000. What I mean that is no matter what the establishment is that you have a high percentage of (trully) effective personnel... IMHO anything under around 70% is a waste of time.

                If you are tasked to provide a company to a PDF unit but only have a section you can't do it, you can't do a platoon attack with 5 people etc etc.

                Critical mass in centralised locations is what is required, it makes the organisation efficient and cost effective!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Quality - absolutely required
                  Retention - see above and will lead to higher numbers
                  "High" numbers - sorry but required, I don't mean having a establishment figure of 10000 (but yet your (trully) effective strength is 2000. What I mean that is no matter what the establishment is that you have a high percentage of (trully) effective personnel... IMHO anything under around 70% is a waste of time.

                  If you are tasked to provide a company to a PDF unit but only have a section you can't do it, you can't do a platoon attack with 5 people etc etc.

                  Critical mass in centralised locations is what is required, it makes the organisation efficient and cost effective!
                  High numbers is this fascination with having upwards of 5000 personnel in the Reserve.

                  There are 16 locations around the country that are permanently occupied by PDF.



                  60 - 90 reserve personnel in each location gives between 1,000 and 1,500.

                  They train at these centres on a week night - and for the weekend a month they join up for coy+ exercises with all the attachments. Same for 2 weeks training.

                  If guys across the water get this level of training and are actively engaged in frontline combat operations in Afghanistan, I don't see why the DF cant get the same level of capability.
                  "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                  Comment


                  • We would be talking 20-130 RDF personnel per PDF unit (not per barracks) ie integration.

                    Integration is the model that should be used (with legislative & regulatory change), the whole point was that it allowed for a reduction in PDF numbers (while maintaining some of the flexibility and capability). With the cutbacks in the PDF it is even more important!

                    Some of those barracks may close in the future. With integration for example, the RDF coy of 28 Inf could be in Finner or Cavan, Finner would probably make more sense logistically and that would be the only RDF unit in the area, while for example there would be a number of RDF sub-units in Athlone.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Some of those barracks may close in the future. With integration for example, the RDF coy of 28 Inf could be in Finner or Cavan, Finner would probably make more sense logistically and that would be the only RDF unit in the area, while for example there would be a number of RDF sub-units in Athlone.
                      Other possible instances with potential closures could be:
                      • Columb Bks: Relocation of half of 54 Res Arty Regt to Athlone (30 mile approx relocation)

                      • Stephens Bks: Relocation of elements of 33 Res Inf Bn to DFTC (longer distance, but with the
                        new M9 ?)

                      • Kickham Bks: Relocation of 31 Res Cav Sqn to Cork (as with 1 Cav Sqn when Fermoy went)


                      Not impossible that one more of the border posts might go aswell...
                      Last edited by Truck Driver; 14 September 2010, 07:27.
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        We would be talking 20-130 RDF personnel per PDF unit (not per barracks) ie integration.

                        Integration is the model that should be used (with legislative & regulatory change), the whole point was that it allowed for a reduction in PDF numbers (while maintaining some of the flexibility and capability). With the cutbacks in the PDF it is even more important!
                        No - I'm talking of 60 - 90 Reserve personnel per barracks, NOT per PDF UNIT. If we went with the latter the Reserve would still be up in the 2,500 personnel mark.

                        Legislation and regulatory protection only comes into effect in the other Reserve forces for periods of FTT and deployment. Even at that the employer has a great deal to say on the matter and many reservists that do deploy make arrangements for themselves.

                        It does not need legislation or regulatory change to commit to parading 1 weeknight a week and 1 weekend a month.

                        It does not need legislation or regulatory change to introduce the same pass standard as the PDF into the RDF.

                        It does not need legislation or regulatory change to put in place training that makes sure someone who joins in year 1 is not being made an NCO in year 2 after two weeks FTT and not having spent one night on the ground.

                        Again, if your not able to commit to the time to serve, then maybe the Reserve component of the Defence Forces aint the place. Its not as if there is a lack of numbers wanting to get into the Organisation. Selectiveness should be the underlining motive.
                        "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                        Comment


                        • It does not need legislation or regulatory change to commit to parading 1 weeknight a week and 1 weekend a month.

                          It does not need legislation or regulatory change to introduce the same pass standard as the PDF into the RDF.

                          It does not need legislation or regulatory change to put in place training that makes sure someone who joins in year 1 is not being made an NCO in year 2 after two weeks FTT and not having spent one night on the ground.

                          Again, if your not able to commit to the time to serve, then maybe the Reserve component of the Defence Forces aint the place. Its not as if there is a lack of numbers wanting to get into the Organisation. Selectiveness should be the underlining motive.
                          Agreed it doesn't require legislation. Its should be contractual and to a certain degree its is if it was managed correctly.

                          If you don't put in the hours required in the correct format,then you can't participate in camps courses and eventually become surplus to requirements.

                          Wiothe the renewal of contracts at each term of engagement the performance of the individual should be assesed and renewal of term of engagement would be dependnat on the performance during the previous term.

                          If people were manged properly as in an annual appraisal by platoon officer with all the evidence on the table you could effectively remove or motivate people on their attendance and performance and lay out the options to them.

                          It wouldn't even cost money, all it requires would be for the junior officers to work as managers and people above them to enforce the options when presented with each case.

                          There is no cost involved or legislation required as its supposed to be happening anyway.

                          The problem being no one is enforcing the rules nor is anybody auditing the system to show that the correct steps are been taken.

                          'Services no longer required' is not a term heard often enough in the RDF.

                          There is enough qualifying criteria out there for people top make it work , all it takes is the balls to enforce it.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                            If guys across the water get this level of training and are actively engaged in frontline combat operations in Afghanistan, I don't see why the DF cant get the same level of capability.
                            You keep bringing this up. Have you found a single person with the power to bring this about that wants it to happen.
                            GOCs, CoS and politicians all pay it lip service.
                            PDF members on this board have posted thir own objections, which IMHO is the sentiment of the PDF at large.
                            When will you start to accept that no one in the PDF wants RDF over seas.
                            You are welcome to do the donkey work at home, as long as it doesn't effect someone's allowance but otherwise you are not wanted.




                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Integration is the model that should be used (with legislative & regulatory change), the whole point was that it allowed for a reduction in PDF numbers (while maintaining some of the flexibility and capability). With the cutbacks in the PDF it is even more important!.
                            1. No one in government wants to bother spending time on such legitave changes.
                            2. No one in the PDF wants to make it easy to cut numbers by allowing "Yellow Pack" (RDF) personnel to do their job.
                            Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                            It does not need legislation or regulatory change to commit to parading 1 weeknight a week and 1 weekend a month.
                            Every person that joins commits to this but so many don't bother.

                            It does not need legislation or regulatory change to introduce the same pass standard as the PDF into the RDF.
                            No but it does need changes to do something about pers that fail to meet the std. AFAICS in the RDF failing to meet fitness or other ability tests are not grounds for discharge.
                            Is there a mechanism to say "services no longer required".
                            Its all very well saying there should be a standard and paying it lip service. It is a completely different matter ensuring that standard is met.

                            It does not need legislation or regulatory change to put in place training that makes sure someone who joins in year 1 is not being made an NCO in year 2 after two weeks FTT and not having spent one night on the ground.
                            ?? I thought that this was no longer possible. You must pass the various modules?? I s this not so?

                            Again, if your not able to commit to the time to serve, ......................... Selectiveness should be the underlining motive.
                            Now I think that hits the nail on the head.
                            But how do you select?
                            Every 17 year old that presents themself wil be eager. Just like joining a jym, that first day when they are telling themselves they will be back for more. However when the match is on, their girl/boy friend calls or they have homework that eagerness is dulled.
                            So how do you make it what they want?
                            It is tough competing with girls, sport (on TV) and all the other diversions of teenage life.

                            Numbers were high in the 80s because people had F-all else to do!!!
                            I know bwecause I was there!!!

                            Kermit someone has to dream.
                            Last edited by luchi; 14 September 2010, 11:59.
                            Without supplies no army is brave.

                            —Frederick the Great,

                            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                            Comment


                            • When will you start to accept that no one in the PDF wants RDF over seas.
                              there are too many in the RDF who still believe that the reserve has a role overseas. It was sold to them as part of the Re org.However the re org did not forsee a recesion, and the armys ability to close ranks and try defend what it has without sharing with the RDF.

                              Despite the uniforms and likenesses these are two seperate entities and this will never change.

                              Career people who depend on the job and its trips to pay the bills as opposed to those who can give up their time to try and eat into the extra income the career people want.

                              If I offered to your employer that I would do yoyur job free of charge, wouldn't you make it as awkward as possible for me to even try?


                              Is there a mechanism to say "services no longer required".
                              Yep..Reason for Discharge, to be filled in appropriately but to tick all the boxes so that its not constructive or summary dismissal all the steps such as appraisals, fitness criteria and annual qualifiers,must be adressed along the way.

                              The mechanisms are there but as usual the RDF warrior is often finely versed in the ways of fighting battles but when it comes to getting the admin side is often sadly lacking.


                              Numbers were high in the 80s because people had F-all else to do!!!
                              I know bwecause I was there
                              I brought this up years ago and it has yet to be acted on, or maybe deliberately so.

                              Show me one supermarket chain that opened on sundays or after 6pm mon to thurs during the 80s


                              Employment...teeenagers are an expensive commodity to own, they require education ,recreation etc and all this cost money. Very few parents can stump up every bob the younger people need..so they get paying jobs.....

                              Even those who are beyond the teenage pahse and are self supporting..the working day has become llonger, shift work has increased, premises have longer weeks and longer opening hours and people are rostered to cover these.

                              Hence the lack of availibility.

                              The Reserve has nothing to offer finacially any more unless your a student off for the summer or you can afford to work your tax table to suit the RDF.

                              While all the action man stuff might seem like an incentive to turn up and learn, when it comes down to being action man of having a few quid in your pocket, I think the money will win out.

                              Should have figured out a paystructure and contracts when there was a few quid to be had.Now theres abolutely nothing with eeven elements of the PDF fighting to justify their own existence.
                              Last edited by hptmurphy; 14 September 2010, 12:25.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                              Comment


                              • Show me one supermarket chain that opened on sundays or after 6pm mon to thurs during the 80s
                                Well we may be going back there.
                                At least 2 of the main supermarket chains are looking at opening hours. In many town sunday trading is not viable.
                                In fact a number of Dublin supermarkets have now cut back their evening hours.

                                What will the teen agers do when these jopbs dry up.

                                Also look at the age profile of those working in the supermarkets and shops. It is slowly creeping up as more people are looking for a job.
                                Without supplies no army is brave.

                                —Frederick the Great,

                                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X