Recruit Camp

[mallen83]

My opinion on this is that all recruit training camps should be conducted under the BTC, and that way they are at a higher standard. And standardised by the people who are running the show in terms of getting NCOs up to standard too.

However, I do recognise that the BTC would be under resourced to accomodate such an idea.
But I would suggest that all NCOs requested to attend the camp should have achieved a grade B on a PNCO course.
Thereby ensuring that they have a high standard of training and that they would be up to the task of training recruits, and ensuring that all instructors are up to a high level.
As opposed to the way it is done at the minute - whereby it is down to whatever NCOs are available.

Post PNCO course, that instructor has grown into a better instructor, and is better suited for passing on what they know and moulding peole into soldiers in their own image.

I know this is not an ideal probability, but its a good place to start. The centralised training of all recruits is one of the very few good things that the re-org managed to successfully implement.
Getting rid of it is a bad move in my eyes.

[Dazzler]

This year would be the easiest year to have a fully centralised Recruit camp. There are only 232 recruits in the whole country, Are there any locations that could handle that number?


Or they could be split into 2 groups and train them like that.

Rather what they will do is the 3 Bde's having 1 recruit camp each.

If they had one Central Recruit course it would cost less and the best instructors could be requested for it.

How many Instructors would be needed.

1 Cpl. per 10 Bods. So 23 Cpl's.
1 Sgt. Per 3 Cpl's, So 8 Sgt's
1 CQMS for the camp. (Given there are actually 3 Coy's worth of Troops, Maybe there should be 3, and 1 BQMS, but there is no location that I know of, that is a likely location, which would hold the stores necessary for all these Coy's.)
1 CS per 3 Platoons. So 3 CS's
1 Sgt Maj per Comdt. So 1 Sgt. Maj.
1 Lt. Per 1 Sgt. So 8 Lt's.
1 Capt. Per 3 Lt's, + 1 Capt who is EO of the camp, so 4 Capt's.
1 Comdt. Per 3 Capt. 1 Comdt.

So 44 NCO's/Officers. 232 Recruits.

That's 276 personnel.

Then Security, but it may be illegal for me to post the numbers needed up here so I won't. But in total maybe 70 more personnel just for general duties around the camp.

So that brings the number to 346.

This number includes what I assume would be needed for various Duties.

Is there any place that could handle all these Personnel for one 2 week period?

it would probably cost less to have the camp for one 2 week length of time rather than splitting

It could cause some Logistical problems I know. Such as, how do you fire 232 recruits in one 2 week period. But I still think it is doable.

Bere Island is out because the cookhouse couldn't handle that many people.

Lahinch has no range and the same.

The Glen is perfectly sized, but no Small Arms range. Would bringing them to the Curragh be Feasible?


Well this is just me thinking out loud. What do ye think of this thought?



EDIT: Also started Crunching the numbers on Pay. It would cost Approx €219,300 for the 2 weeks of training for just the Pay of Personnel who are listed above. This doesn't include the Cadre or Duties Personnel. It also doesn't include any ancillary costs.


I would imagine however that all cost's in the final cost would come to in the region of €400,000. Given the fuel consumption, Pay of Personnel due to more Duties, and Food would increase if the Training is Spread across the 3 Bde's, I feel this is Probably the most cost effective way to carry out the Training.

I know I have not thought of everything, but still, I think this is the way it should be done this year. If never again. Also, it could prove that the RDF can run something bigger than a Piss-Up.

So, thoughts, comment's, arguements.

[madmark]

how many bods can you fit into kilworth

[Dazzler]

how many bods can you fit into kilworth

With Tentage used, Alot, but how big is the Cookhouse there? That is another Good location actually.

[ZULU]

major construction in place in kilworth. However its stopped half way through due to the contractor folding

[Goldie fish]

It seems the OPW is lacking when it comes to seeking a bond from those they engage in construction.

[trellheim]

DFTC would be the perfect place to house said course, with tentage. A wonderful idea to have a fully central camp , in fact if you created a once-off training Battalion and did the 3-star course too at the same time you could do it all in one go.

[DeV]

Something along the lines of a TA summer challenge, you'd be talking around 6 weeks solid, there are 232 recruits, th/at a total of 9744 mandays (not including instructors & admin logs personnel).

Thats 65% of the East's manday allocation.

[Truck Driver]

Something along the lines of a TA summer challenge, you'd be talking around 6 weeks solid, there are 232 recruits, th/at a total of 9744 mandays (not including instructors & admin logs personnel).

Thats 65% of the East's manday allocation

Yes, but that's the THREE brigades recruit allocation, not just E Bde....

Thus all three Bdes would be expected to supply instructors, naturally enough

RDFTA could assist with the co-ordination, pre course briefing for attached Instrs, etc.

Not a bad idea when you look at it like that.

But putting recruits into tentage, nope, wouldn't go for that.

As someone said before (think it was JNS), recruits have to learn the basics of keeping
accommodation and ablutions in proper order before they progress to roughing it ....

[SwiftandSure]

But putting recruits into tentage, nope, wouldn't go for that.

As someone said before (think it was JNS), recruits have to learn the basics of keeping
accommodation and ablutions in proper order before they progress to roughing it ....

I agree, you need a barrack block for initial training. I wouldn't expect recruits living out of tents to be able to iron their kit; unless the DF are supplying power to the tents as well?
The alternative being recruits pressing uniforms with heated mess tins! Improvise, adapt and overcome being the lesson of that day!

[ZULU]

If the Kilworth Project was ever finished there would be MORE than enough accomodation. The problem then becomes that there is no class room facilities up to Grade 1 or even grade 2 standard for training.

The plus sides is that the tactical area is close and fieldcraft and such are taught and practises whee they should be. On the other side though the other support facilities (Armoury etc) are too small to facilitate this mass training also.

I whole heartedly agree with the concept but at the present time with the current attitudes and fumbling of the training in all aspects of the reserve as well as its future, you have to wonder if anyone in the higher echelons is listening or willing to make a positive move

[riflemangundy]

This year would be the easiest year to have a fully centralised Recruit camp. There are only 232 recruits in the whole country, Are there any locations that could handle that number?


Or they could be split into 2 groups and train them like that.

Rather what they will do is the 3 Bde's having 1 recruit camp each.

If they had one Central Recruit course it would cost less and the best instructors could be requested for it.

How many Instructors would be needed.

1 Cpl. per 10 Bods. So 23 Cpl's.
1 Sgt. Per 3 Cpl's, So 8 Sgt's
1 CQMS for the camp. (Given there are actually 3 Coy's worth of Troops, Maybe there should be 3, and 1 BQMS, but there is no location that I know of, that is a likely location, which would hold the stores necessary for all these Coy's.)
1 CS per 3 Platoons. So 3 CS's
1 Sgt Maj per Comdt. So 1 Sgt. Maj.
1 Lt. Per 1 Sgt. So 8 Lt's.
1 Capt. Per 3 Lt's, + 1 Capt who is EO of the camp, so 4 Capt's.
1 Comdt. Per 3 Capt. 1 Comdt.

So 44 NCO's/Officers. 232 Recruits.

That's 276 personnel.

Then Security, but it may be illegal for me to post the numbers needed up here so I won't. But in total maybe 70 more personnel just for general duties around the camp.

So that brings the number to 346.

This number includes what I assume would be needed for various Duties.

Is there any place that could handle all these Personnel for one 2 week period?

it would probably cost less to have the camp for one 2 week length of time rather than splitting

It could cause some Logistical problems I know. Such as, how do you fire 232 recruits in one 2 week period. But I still think it is doable.

Bere Island is out because the cookhouse couldn't handle that many people.

Lahinch has no range and the same.

The Glen is perfectly sized, but no Small Arms range. Would bringing them to the Curragh be Feasible?


Well this is just me thinking out loud. What do ye think of this thought?



EDIT: Also started Crunching the numbers on Pay. It would cost Approx €219,300 for the 2 weeks of training for just the Pay of Personnel who are listed above. This doesn't include the Cadre or Duties Personnel. It also doesn't include any ancillary costs.


I would imagine however that all cost's in the final cost would come to in the region of €400,000. Given the fuel consumption, Pay of Personnel due to more Duties, and Food would increase if the Training is Spread across the 3 Bde's, I feel this is Probably the most cost effective way to carry out the Training.

I know I have not thought of everything, but still, I think this is the way it should be done this year. If never again. Also, it could prove that the RDF can run something bigger than a Piss-Up.

So, thoughts, comment's, arguements.

Coolmoney holds 402 so i was told

[Goldie fish]

It may hold 402, but most of the time those 402 are not in the camp. Recruit training means for the most part, they would be. Last time I looked in Coolmoney, there was one shed you could use as a classroom. Two if you took over the mess.

Not suitable at all.

[DeV]

The up to 402 who be the accomodiation available & dining facilities. In an emergency, I suppose you could use the 2 wpns cleaning rooms as classrooms but they are less than ideal.

Coolmoney would be suitable for a centralised all RDF 2*-3* camp, neither Kilbride or the Curragh are a million miles away in order to fire the GPMG. Tents would suiffice for training rooms for the 2*s.

[Truck Driver]

The Glen might be OK for a 2* to 3* course, as there is less emphasis on
FD/AD in the syllabus compared to the Recruit Training Syllabus

Need a square area to do FD/AD lessons, also a proper bks block to
introduce the recruit to how to square away a billet, etc.

Also good for those times when you need to introduce "unit interior economy" into
the equation..... :wink: