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  1. #1
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Recruitment/Promotion Embargo (untill end of 2010!)

    I know Dev has brought it up elsewhere, but for those of you who missed it:

    http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/...stanletter.pdf

    Ref: E109/107/94
    Mr/Mrs
    Secretary General/Head of Office
    Department of …..
    27 March 2009
    Implementation of Savings Measures on Public Service Numbers
    Dear…..
    1. I refer to the Government decision arising from the Memoranda for the
    Government on the above matter.
    2. I am to direct that, with effect from the date of this letter to end 2010, no
    public service post, however arising, may be filled by recruitment, promotion, nor
    payment of an allowance for the performance of duties at a higher grade. Therefore
    when vacancies arise Departments/agencies etc must reallocate or reorganise work or
    staff accordingly. Any exceptions to this principle, which will arise in very limited
    circumstances only, require the prior sanction of the Minister for Finance. The
    decision also applies to temporary appointments on a fixed-term basis and to the
    renewal of such contracts.
    3. The Minister may sanction the filling of posts through the redeployment of
    staff of the same or equivalent grade from another Department/Office or public body.
    Secretaries General and Heads of Office must ensure that their Departments and
    Offices (and, where relevant, bodies under the aegis of their Department/Office)
    comply fully and expeditiously with all requests and directions from the Minister for
    Finance in relation to the redeployment of staff. Arrangements for consultations with
    staff representatives on redeployment will be the subject of separate correspondence
    with your Department
    4. From the date of this letter, all existing delegated sanctions in relation to staff
    numbers, grading, promotions, recruitment and related issues are withdrawn both in
    relation to your Department/Office and bodies under the aegis of your
    Department/Office.
    5. No offers of appointment, promotion or allowance for the performance of
    duties of a higher grade may be made from the date of this letter without the approval
    of the Minister for Finance (any such offer in progress should not proceed without the
    express approval of this Department). Any competitions/promotions currently in
    progress should not proceed further without the express sanction of this Department.
    6. As the Government Decision comprehends the wider public service , you
    should communicate this direction immediately to all relevant bodies under the aegis
    of your Department/Office, and send a copy of your direction to the relevant Vote
    Section of this Department.
    7 New authorised staffing complements will be determined by Government in
    the light of any recommendations of the Special Group on Numbers and Public
    Expenditure, and communicated in due course.
    Yours sincerely
    Donal McNally
    Second Secretary General
    Sectoral Policy Division
    • So if you want to join, you cant.
    • If you are in, and want to get promoted, you wont.
    • If you are due to retire, and hold an appointment that earns an allowance, you won't be replaced.


    I predict major difficulties, as a result of this policy.

  2. #2
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    No Acting appointments either

    how will this work out for overseas appointments
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  3. #3
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    There are acting (paid) and acting (unpaid) are there not?

    Also does this mean no RDF overseas as they were going as PDF?

  4. #4
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There are acting (paid) and acting (unpaid) are there not?
    News to me that Acting in a rank, rather than being Substantive, is paid in the
    Acting Rank, e.g; a Sgt being an Acting Coy Sgt being paid as a Coy Sgt.... (?)

    Also does this mean no RDF overseas as they were going as PDF?
    Oooohh, interesting that. And after all the hoops that were jumped through aswell.
    That WOULD be the untimate kick in the bollocks....
    Last edited by Truck Driver; 28th March 2009 at 18:06.
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  5. #5
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Looks that way. They would have been appointed to a role that would earn an allowance.

  6. #6
    Chief of the Diet Tribe Groundhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There are acting (paid) and acting (unpaid) are there not?
    No. Acting Unpaid was done away with 20 years ago.

    Say NO to violence against Women

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    My favourite moment was when the
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  7. #7
    the gunney greyfox's Avatar
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    will this effect those rdf on pots and standard courses ,, ? or is it just those full time
    "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

  8. #8
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It specifically mentions the Permanent Defence force. However you can still complete the course and not be upgraded.

  9. #9
    We got VC on the wire ICUN's Avatar
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    Does this include promotions in the PDF and the guards?

  10. #10
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUN View Post
    Does this include promotions in the PDF and the guards?
    5. No offers of appointment, promotion or allowance for the performance of
    duties of a higher grade may be made from the date of this letter without the approval
    of the Minister for Finance (any such offer in progress should not proceed without the
    express approval of this Department). Any competitions/promotions currently in
    progress should not proceed further without the express sanction of this Department.

  11. #11
    We got VC on the wire ICUN's Avatar
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    Maybe the DF will get the "express sanction of the dept" seeing as it is an organisation that relies totally on rank and appointments to function properly, more so than a civil service dept or local authority office. I'm sure its the same for the Guards.

  12. #12
    Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    5. No offers of appointment, promotion or allowance for the performance of
    duties of a higher grade may be made from the date of this letter without the approval
    of the Minister for Finance (any such offer in progress should not proceed without the
    express approval of this Department). Any competitions/promotions currently in
    progress should not proceed further without the express sanction of this Department.

    That is a serious bastardo of a clause.

  13. #13
    Moderated
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    i understand that there will be a large number of retirements from the GS this year due to pension levies etc. shud this happen, i would expect a recruitment drive t begin. (id expect the above to happen the DF too). if this does happen, this emargo on promotion would result in no recruitment. i.e the chief super/colonel that retires will not be replaced?

    or if he/she is, it will be in an acting role so making recruitment obsolete?

  14. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Please read the documents!

    Goldie has posted the letter above, but here it is again & a Q&A sheet:
    http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/...stanletter.pdf
    http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=5723

    NO recruitment to ANY public service job from 27/3/09 untill end 2010

    NO additional pay for doing duties of a higher grade (ie Acting), any competitions to find personnel to do duties of a higher grade are now suspended untill End 2010.

    ANY exceptions ON A VERY LIMITED BASIS ONLY & then ONLY with the sanction of Brian Lenihan TD (himself not a civil servant from Finance)

    This also applys to the RENEWAL of contracts & seasonal/temporary staff.

    The only person with authority to decided on numbers, grading, promotions, recruitment is now Brian Lenihan TD (didn't notice gradings there before - that could mean that PDF recruits may not make 3*).

    You if effects - Civil Service, local authorities, non-commercial state bodies, the Garda Síochána and PDF.

    Recruiting, promotions etc will "only be allowed in very exceptional circumstances".

    Personnel can be redeployed with sanction of Brian Lenihan.

    The only 2 departments that this doesn't have full effect on is Health & Education.

  15. #15
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    There is a strong rumour [ coming from outside the DF ] that there will be a levy on retirement lumpsums - e.g.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  16. #16
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    eg what

    can the retirement grat be changed- it was only recently signed in
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  17. #17
    Chief of the Diet Tribe Groundhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    There is a strong rumour [ coming from outside the DF ] that there will be a levy on retirement lumpsums - e.g.
    It was doing the rounds last week. A levy of 17.5% was mentioned. One of the teachers' unions took legal advice on that some time ago and that advice was that it's not legally possible. Of course the flip side of that is that lawyers differ, workers pay the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    eg what

    can the retirement grat be changed- it was only recently signed in
    They won't change it. They'll tax it.
    Last edited by Groundhog; 30th March 2009 at 19:04.

    Say NO to violence against Women

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    My favourite moment was when the
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundhog View Post


    They won't change it. They'll tax it.
    I hear that too. They will tax a fairly high portion of it. The dudes who hung on in there for the 31 years will be shafted a little methinks.

  19. #19
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUN View Post
    Maybe the DF will get the "express sanction of the dept" seeing as it is an organisation that relies totally on rank and appointments to function properly, more so than a civil service dept or local authority office. I'm sure its the same for the Guards.
    You have placed a lot of importance on the organisation of the defence forces. Consider instead the output it provides compared to the civil service you despise so much. We have managers too. When they retire, they also need to be replaced.
    Much legal function is provided to senior civil servants. People who provide social welfare payments etc, all these decisions have to be made by people at certain grades, and this is laid down by legislation.
    I think the public would be more worried that there is no senior civil servant to approve their welfare payment, rather than the Army having only has 19 sergeants to pick for BOS instead of 20.
    The DF is the weakest voice in these affairs. "Frontline services" are things like Motor tax, water rates, VRT, Social welfare etc, and not "I.C Firing Point". If savings have to be made, you can be sure that the "frontline services" will be the ones maintained. Even the Gardai are suffering greatly from this decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    There is a strong rumour [ coming from outside the DF ] that there will be a levy on retirement lumpsums - e.g.
    We had a number of retirements last week on the strength of this rumour.
    Last edited by Goldie fish; 30th March 2009 at 21:18.

  20. #20
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I cant wait to see what happens

    when the current cadet class are finished training
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  21. #21
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    I cant wait to see what happens

    when the current cadet class are finished training
    Was just thinking the same thing. Similarly for any career courses currently underway.

  22. #22
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    The overseas will also kick up a dust storm

    a lot of very senior officers go overseas in an acting up appointment
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  23. #23
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Sorry HH 17.5% was the figure mooted in the missing eg.

    As to legality, all that is required is a change to the taxes consolidation act, unless it's in the constitution most things are up for change.

    What happens to PDF 1-pippers ? they can't be promoted now either.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  24. #24
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    They can of course be promoted to the rank, but not recieve the wage or allowences associated with that rank.

  25. #25
    2/Lt
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    I could be way off the mark here, in fact it is a huge possibility.

    But Did that say Contracts would not be Renewed?

    Are lads who enter the PDF not on an initial 5 year contract. Will these contract's be renewed?

    I know I am probably off the mark, please correct if I am.
    I probably am wrong, sorry about that!!!

    Please PM me to correct me.

    But, not if I state an opinion, only if I state something as truth!!!

    I have bad opinions but I stick by them!!!

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