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  1. #1
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    The DF & An Bord Snip

    Get rid of the equation school
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  2. #2
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Surely Equitation ? Ah sure we'll find out at 1400 anyway. Cue union howls of outrage
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  3. #3
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    In deciding the recommendations for the Defence Group of Votes, the Special Group has taken into
    consideration the detailed evaluation papers prepared by the D/Defence and by the Defence Vote
    Section in the Department of Finance. It has also taken into account that gross current Exchequer
    expenditure for this Vote has increased by about 26% since 2001 compared to an increase of over
    115% in total gross current Exchequer expenditure over the same period. This is primarily due to
    ongoing reforms in the Defence Forces over this period, including a reduction of over 900
    personnel.
    On the basis of the information and analyses made available to it and following its interaction with
    the D/Defence, the Group has identified proposals to save €53.4m. The Group has identified scope
    for a structural reduction of at least 20 staff across the Department.
    The Group is cognisant of the interdependency between all elements of Defence expenditure, which
    militates against determining savings in the Defence area on a programme-by-programme basis.
    Accordingly, the Programme allocation of savings given in Table 5.3 below is broadly indicative in
    nature. More generally, on the basis of the information and analyses made available to it and
    following its interaction with the D/Defence, the Group recommends gross reductions across the
    board of around €25m in pay and €20m in non-pay in a full year on the basis of a number of
    specific measures detailed below, as well as savings of about €8.5m elsewhere on the Vote.
    Personnel Reductions
    It should be possible to reorganise the Defence sector over a period of time so as to achieve a
    reduction of 500 personnel. The Group is conscious that delivering such a reduction in numbers
    while preserving operational capability will require considerable planning and redesign of the
    - 47 -
    organisation including consolidation of the command structure. Notwithstanding the reduction in
    numbers, the increased efficiency of the organisation should allow for the preservation of the
    existing 3 brigade structure. The Group recommends, accordingly, that the D/Defence should bring
    forward proposals for approval by the Government by the end of 2009 to allow a reduction of 500
    .
    This reduction could be achieved, within a 2 to 3 year period as operational requirements allow.
    Based on a proportionate reduction in the 2009 net pay provision in the Defence vote, the resultant
    saving in the pay provision should, over the 3 year period, rise to approximately €25m per annum in
    2009 prices.
    The Group has also identified scope for a structural change in the Reserve Defence Force involving
    a reduction of at least 4,900 members.
    Last edited by trellheim; 16th July 2009 at 14:17.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  4. #4
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Rationalise the army barracks
    While 10 barracks have closed over the past decade, 24 permanently occupied barracks remain.
    The dispersal of personnel over a large number of locations is a major impediment to essential
    collective training as well as imposing increased and unnecessary overheads on the Permanent
    Defence Forces in terms of barrack management, administration, maintenance and security.
    There are further opportunities to consolidate Defence Forces units into a smaller number of
    locations and to dispose of the surplus properties. While some up-front expenditure on
    infrastructural works will be needed in advance of any further consolidation into these barracks,
    there may be immediate opportunities in some locations to close and dispose of properties. The
    Special Group recommends that the D/Defence bring forward detailed proposals for closure of such
    additional barracks in the shortest possible timeframe and for the disposal of surplus properties so
    as to maximise the return having regard to market conditions.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  5. #5
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Vol 1 Page 41 - item A.2

    Discontinue the Equitation Team

    Get rid of sail training

    Its like the lads on the Snip Board actually listen to me

    other things to note- a phased reduction of 520 from the DF

    and the RDF to be reduced by 2/3rds

    and Overholders in the Curragh to be charged full rent
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  6. #6
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    A.2 Discontinue the Army Equestrian Team
    The Group sees no justification for the Army Equitation School as part of a modern professional
    defence force or for its funding through the Defence Vote, or public funds, and recommends that the
    State funding be discontinued and doing so should yield savings of €1m a year.
    And so the axe falls on the horsey school! Asgard gets the chop too, and they want to reduce the RDF by two thirds (of course, the RDF is so understrength anyway that this will only really require the loss of officers and SNCOs)

  7. #7
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Cathal Brugha Barracks
    In particular, the Special Group considers that there is no need for two large Army barracks in
    Dublin and the future of Cathal Brugha Barracks should be reviewed with a view to possible sale.
    Given the scale of any relocation, the provision of alternative accommodation would entail a
    significant up-front cost and a lead-time of some years. It is recommended that, as part of an
    overall consolidation programme, the D/Defence should bring forward a detailed feasibility study
    for the disposal of Cathal Brugha Barracks and the relocation of the personnel stationed there to
    other sites within the Defence Forces portfolio. This rationalisation of premises will contribute to
    the reduction in numbers in the Permanent Defence Forces
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  8. #8
    C/S
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    End of mission to Chad in 2010, rationalise number of missions we're deployed on.


    Naval service vessel replacement over longer time period.
    Last edited by paul g; 16th July 2009 at 14:25.

  9. #9
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    Charghe full price for ATCP to other departments
    I think that point is more "Charge the banks full price for cash escorts"

  10. #10
    C/S
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    I think that point is more "Charge the banks full price for cash escorts"
    Thats just common sense

  11. #11
    Sergeant Major
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    The snip report

    Just got it off RTE news website:

    "The Group is of the view that it should be possible to achieve a reduction of 500 Defence Forces personnel through natural wastage and non-filling of non-essential vacancies taking account of barrack reorganisation, consolidation of the command structure as well as the proposed rationalisation of Ireland’s overseas commitments. Based on the proportionate reduction in the 2009 net pay provision in the Defence Vote, the resultant saving in the pay provision should, over a 40 2-3 year period as operational requirements allow, rise to approximately €25m a year in 2009 prices.
    The Group also considers that a smaller, more focused Reserve Defence Force (RDF) could deliver a more usable capability to the Defence Forces for less expenditure. It recommends accordingly that the RDF be reduced by two-thirds."


    Opinions??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I think that point is more "Charge the banks full price for cash escorts"
    They also want to charge other eepartments the full price for using MATS.

  13. #13
    Chief of the Diet Tribe Groundhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    ....they want to reduce the RDF by two thirds (of course, the RDF is so understrength anyway that this will only really require the loss of officers and SNCOs)
    Effectively this is the death knell of the RDF.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    End of mission to Chad in 2010, rationalise number of missions we're deployed on...
    Overseas missions are the only justification for the DF.

    Say NO to violence against Women

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    My favourite moment was when the
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  14. #14
    BQMS
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    So they want to close the Brugha...
    www.twitter.com/mickthehack


  15. #15
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundhog View Post
    Effectively this is the death knell of the RDF.
    I dunno about that, if done right it may get rid of a lot of the toxic leadership we're subjected to. But of course, the reorg wasn't done right, so there's no guarantee that this will be any different. But let's be optimistic! (and feel sorry for all the Commandants that are for the chop)

  16. #16
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    Ltes not forget that there are recomendations, and a lot of intrest groups, such a reservists will scream blue murder about it. Asgard and Equestian schools were kept in the 1980's for example.

  17. #17
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    CBB should have been gotten rid of three years ago if it was being sold at all. The arse has fallen out of rez and commercial since.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  18. #18
    Ex-bagger Big Al's Avatar
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    Overseas peacekeeping expenditure to be counted as part of Ireland’s expenditure on foreign aid
    Very clever move...
    You're even dumber than I tell people

    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

  19. #19
    CQMS Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    Maybe a smaller more streamlined & standardised RDF will be more useful. Cut it down to two Bdes or something with just one trg centre?
    If at first you don't succeed, then call in an airstrike.

  20. #20
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Very clever move...
    It is extremely clever and devious

    I was petrified that would would recomend all our future overseas be with the UN

    because they refund whereas PFP etc you pay as you go
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  21. #21
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Basicaly they are recommending getting rid of the non-integrated reserve.

  22. #22
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    SO far its harsh but

    maybe we needed it
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  23. #23
    We got VC on the wire ICUN's Avatar
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    RDF cut by 2 thirds

    From the McCarthy report of An Bord Snip:

    Starts on page 39, RDF bit at top of page 40 -
    "The Group also considers that a smaller, more focused Reserve Defence Force (RDF) could deliver a more usable capability to the Defence Forces for less expenditure. It recommends accordingly that the RDF be reduced by two-thirds."
    - link to report on RTE

  24. #24
    CQMS ARNGScout's Avatar
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    While it could be argued that there is some merit to this suggestion I'd like to hear more about the "usable capability" - that is a loaded term that could mean nothing (just words to reduce costs) or everything (deployments etc.).

    What is the current strength of the RDF?
    There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

  25. #25
    the gunney greyfox's Avatar
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    Rip rdf
    "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

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