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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sluggie View Post
    There seems to be some confusion on the rdf proposal. They are not seeking to reduce the establishment by 66%. they are calling for 4,900 (about 45%??).
    Originally posted by kermit
    The call is to reduce it by (note, not of) 4900, which is a reduction of about 40% of the current establishment......The reduction of 66% is in funding.
    That's not what the report says.


    The Group also considers that a smaller, more focused
    Reserve Defence Force (RDF) could deliver a more usable capability to the Defence Forces for less expenditure. It recommends accordingly that the RDF be reduced by two-thirds.

    Programme A – Contingent Capabilities

    Indicative share of pay savings €16.5m
    Indicative share of non-pay savings €13.3m
    A.1 Charge full value of rent to ‘overholders’ of married quarters €0.1m
    A.2 Discontinue the Army Equestrian Team €1.0m
    A.3 Reduce the Reserve Defence Force by two-thirds €5.6m

    Programme A savings €36.5m


    sigpic
    Say NO to violence against Women

    Originally posted by hedgehog
    My favourite moment was when the
    Originally posted by hedgehog
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

    Comment


    • #77
      Would cutting the pdf more and recruiting more rdf to balance the loss ie more part timers than full timers so not as many pensions, full weeks pay etc would be spent?

      Comment


      • #78
        numbers v expenditure

        Using the 2008 figures, 4321 used 81000 mandays, stated earlier
        At 31 Jan 09, strength was at 7500.
        1037 of the 4321 were recruits, leaving 3284 of the standing force attending at least 7 days FTT.

        So, 7500 - 1037 (recruits) = 5426 - 3284 (FTT) = 2142. (40%)

        This 40% of the RDF could not / would not commit to 7 days FTT for ones' unit, for one's nation !, when individual FTT was up and over 42 days !!!

        Why would you recruit more RDF ? 40% we have won't commit to even Annual Training.
        What are the set of factors for which this 40% won't commit ? Anyone know ?

        In fact, we should be discarding all this lot ! and stop fooling ourselves.

        Next cut will be the cadre, 400 (05) up to 421 (09), at approx cost 29m, supporting a force of 4321 that will commit to FTT (hours during which the PDF operate) won't last. The WP 05 gave a model of 299 for the Non-Integrated Cadre, so up its going rather than down !!

        The deciding factor in this will be the proposed 2.8m budget, that will sweat down the Reserve, similar to 1983.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
          You propose to discharge 2,656 integrated reservists on the grounds that they are better trained than the non-integrated?:confused:
          No, he wants the Integrated Reserve removed from the establishment of the Reserve Forces. There was only 300 Int bods or so, and they are all now RTU'd so it doesn't mean anyone is discharged.
          I probably am wrong, sorry about that!!!

          Please PM me to correct me.

          But, not if I state an opinion, only if I state something as truth!!!

          I have bad opinions but I stick by them!!!

          Comment


          • #80
            Credentials & RDF Cutbacks:

            I would like to make a contribution to the current An Board Snip issue, which is

            Closely related to my own situation and without coming across as been too

            inconsiderate I would take this opportunity to pose a small question:


            Assuming recommendations are implemented. Would it be fair to assume that

            opportunities for those who work within support units of the RDF who fail to meet the

            academic civilian training requirements i.e. medics without any civilian medical skills

            Engineering officers without Engineering Degrees etc) or any RDF personnel who

            is not necessarily expendable to the DF , will be expected to go first ?


            Whereas in contrast those RDF personnel who maybe of a lower rank, but who still

            hold the necessary civilian qualifications in their respective battalion (medicine

            engineering) which are recognised by the DF - will be kept on as part of a smaller

            integrated reserve.


            Is this too pre-assumptious to call or could this be considered a fair comment ?


            Discuss.

            Comment


            • #81
              I reckon the Reserve will be re intergrated into pdf units pre 1979 i.e. There will be no stand alone RDF units left and the saving on Cadre will see about 250-300 of the 500 PDF savings needed the rest will be natural wasteage thats just wht I think will happen and for the RDF left the training will probably be better.The draw back is only rdf to survive will be attached to barracks left open and my bets are on the following:
              McKee Dublin
              Dundalk
              Finner
              Athlone
              Galway
              Limerick
              Cork
              Curragh
              That means if you want to serve you will need to live in these locations or travel

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Dazzler View Post
                No, he wants the Integrated Reserve removed from the establishment of the Reserve Forces. There was only 300 Int bods or so, and they are all now RTU'd so it doesn't mean anyone is discharged.
                You lads seem to be unable to grasp that this is about cutting numbers. So moving lads from integrated to non integrated in the context of McCarthy is a meaningless exercise.

                The report says cut the RDF by two-thirds so for example if there are 12,000 personnel in the RDF they want it reduced to 4,000.
                sigpic
                Say NO to violence against Women

                Originally posted by hedgehog
                My favourite moment was when the
                Originally posted by hedgehog
                red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                Comment


                • #83
                  Hi goc132,

                  Sounds awfully like the Integration Model !!

                  I totally agree with your opinion. Furthermore, as each PDF unit in an occupied post has a daily Orderly Sgt (24 hour duty), this duty can also serve the Reservists on their training night/day,etc and receive the cadre allowance !
                  Therefore, no need for separate cadre at all !!

                  Hence the RDF will become urbanised ! into what the Brits call 'super barracks'.

                  Home location is not an issue for the TA, in relation to their Trg Bks, as they get paid for travel !, and structure their training schedule to suit those traveling.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    From looking at it the model they are looking at is closing all rural posts and pulling them into full time occupied barracks and that is it. If you are willing to put in the time and effort its will probably still be there for those will to commit to it. If not as they say "on the truck".

                    This years camp was going to be last camp anyway (time is up for me due work and other issues) but even that didnt happen due to a work related accident.
                    Last edited by Thorpe; 17 July 2009, 23:01.
                    Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

                    "Where there is no guidance the people fall, but in abundance of counselors there is victory" Proverbs 11-14
                    http://munsterfireandrescue.com

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      From looking at it the model they are looking at is closing all rural posts and pulling them into full time occupied barracks and that is it.
                      define 'rural' ?

                      The re org was supposed to have removed the outposts...if they are gone it can oly mean that Barracks outside of the main centres of population would be for the chop..addall thses up and you'll probably find the cost of operation meets the requirement for reduction.

                      While the reductions are aimed at the RDF.. the higher number this reworking would in effect also reduce the cadre staff and civilian admin people in the department which would possibly equate to the number for reduction in the PDF.

                      By reducing one you meet your targets with the second , and it would suit the COS..who doesn't want the RDF any way and would be willing to trade it to retain a three brigade structure.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Scrap the RDF full-stop. We have a first line reserve. The LDF/FCA/RDF started life during The Emergency, it ended in 1946 so do we need a group of kids and old people who have no role in the DF. All they care about is money they are getting for doing no notting.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          It is all about value for money, the AR still goes on camps which is a code for piss ups really, the Army see you as a handy posting but look into your hearts and ask what value is the AR really.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Vamp369 View Post
                            Would cutting the pdf more and recruiting more rdf to balance the loss ie more part timers than full timers so not as many pensions, full weeks pay etc would be spent?
                            You must be joking. Tell me you are joking right?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Border Bunny View Post
                              Scrap the RDF full-stop. We have a first line reserve. The LDF/FCA/RDF started life during The Emergency, it ended in 1946 so do we need a group of kids and old people who have no role in the DF. All they care about is money they are getting for doing no notting.
                              Are you for real like? For most of the AR nowadays going on a camp involves taking a massive pay cut.There are a lot of us who still do it for the love of it and not the money. Kids and old people, Jeez are you talking about the Volksturm?
                              Go Mairidís Beo

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by popeye View Post
                                It is all about value for money, the AR still goes on camps which is a code for piss ups really, the Army see you as a handy posting but look into your hearts and ask what value is the AR really.
                                Ah this old chestnut. Perhaps that used to be the case a number of years ago. As for the value the RDF has, ask members who have made lifelong friendships, important contacts and all the free advice they have received from their comrades who may be solicitors, doctors etc. in civvie street what value it has to them?

                                The piss ups as you describe them are actively discouraged nowadays and indeed mentioned in the A7 briefing given at the start of every camp and career course. You cannot forcibly restrain individuals from making eejits of themselves either in a barracks or out in the public. Short of declaring a dry camp (which is nearly the norm now on some courses) it is the job of SNCOS and officers to control the activities of their troops to prevent this behaviour. If some don't then they are failing in their duties.

                                I digress however. The value of the AR goes far beyond that of a fiscal nature in my opinion and while some cuts are inevitable and indeed necessary, it should not be disbanded in its entirety as an easy target.
                                Go Mairidís Beo

                                Comment

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