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  • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
    they supervise, train and counsel subordinates.
    Yes I know that and agree with it 100%

    My point is that, from my limited exposure to Bde level operations, there appears to be a number of jobs that could be done by lower ranks but because it is in HQ there is a CS/CQ rank attached to the post.
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

    Comment


    • there are only a few CS's in Bde HQ (PDF) in the East

      they all hold very very senior NCO apointments and in positions that require that rank

      they are not paper shufflers-

      There is only 1 CQ ( that I am aware of in Bde HQ) he is a CQ thats his job.



      from my limited exposure to Bde level operations

      RBION
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by luchi View Post
        Assuming that the the RDF mirrors PDF for a minute.
        Originally posted by luchi View Post
        from my limited exposure to Bde level operations,
        Hedgie I did qualify my remarks.

        I am asking not telling.
        Without supplies no army is brave.

        —Frederick the Great,

        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

        Comment


        • Originally posted by luchi View Post
          Hedgie I did qualify my remarks.

          I am asking not telling.
          I know

          thats why I am informing and answering
          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
          Are full of passionate intensity.

          Comment


          • [QUOTE=hedgehog;269047]there are only a few CS's in Bde HQ (PDF) in the East

            they all hold very very senior NCO apointments and in positions that require that rank

            they are not paper shufflers-

            There is only 1 CQ ( that I am aware of in Bde HQ) he is a CQ thats his job.





            According to Dante the famous italian poet hypocrites inhabit the lowest rank of hell.

            Funny how in hedgieland NCO's in eastern brigade HQ require rank to carry out their positions, but officers sent overseas to command foreign troops and officers don't. Maybe we can sent out a captain to command a mulitnational Brigade, because all the other armies won't mind their officers taking orders from somebody whose lower in rank then they are, and the senior officers in a multinational hq are going to take the opinions of a captain really seriously, aren't they? Just like a sergeant in 2 bn is going to take advice from a corporal from Eastern Brigade HQ, which is why the job is therefore a SNCO position.

            Why not reduce senior nco ranks in line with the cuts you're proposing to senior officers, we can then have lots of three stars with nobody to manage them. Coming up for promotion yourself when the embargo ends?
            Last edited by paul g; 14 September 2009, 16:13.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by paul g View Post
              Maybe we can sent out a captain to command a Brigade, because all the other armies won't mind their officers taking orders from somebody whose lower in rank then they are. All the generals in a hq are going to take the opinions of a captain really seriously, aren't they.
              Yes actually.

              The Commandant of the Naval College regularly attends conferences with other Naval colleges around the world. In ireland, this position holds the rank of Commander. Everywhere else, it is held by Rear Admiral or above. Our representative doesn't have to take a back seat because of his rank. There was a report about it in An Cosantoir about a year ago.
              It is the appointment, not the rank that matters.


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by paul g View Post

                Funny how in hedgieland NCO's in eastern brigade HQ require rank to carry out their positions, but officers sent overseas to command foreign troops and officers don't. Maybe we can sent out a captain to command a mulitnational Brigade,
                Surely a man would not be sent out to do a job that he could not do.

                IF your scinario were to happen surely said capt would be someone that would have the respect to command.

                I can see where you are comming from but if you have to give a man a title to be taken seriously then we are surely in trouble.
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • Then again, we have a small naval service, but we send a officer of a very high rank in the NS. if somebody does an important job, be it as a commissioned or non commissioned officer, he should be given a rank and salary, sutiable in lines with the Df management structure, which contrary to hedgie's comments aren't overburdened with pen pushing senior officers.

                  While you could argue that cutting officers and SNCO would free up funds for new two stars and cadets, how you going to attract people and retain them if there are no vacancies to promote them to.

                  luchi the military is a very heirarchial society, no matter where you go, and status is important.
                  Last edited by paul g; 14 September 2009, 17:01.

                  Comment


                  • [QUOTE=paul g;269069]
                    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                    there are only a few CS's in Bde HQ (PDF) in the East

                    they all hold very very senior NCO apointments and in positions that require that rank

                    they are not paper shufflers-

                    There is only 1 CQ ( that I am aware of in Bde HQ) he is a CQ thats his job.





                    According to Dante the famous italian poet hypocrites inhabit the lowest rank of hell.

                    Funny how in hedgieland NCO's in eastern brigade HQ require rank to carry out their positions, but officers sent overseas to command foreign troops and officers don't. Maybe we can sent out a captain to command a mulitnational Brigade, because all the other armies won't mind their officers taking orders from somebody whose lower in rank then they are, and the senior officers in a multinational hq are going to take the opinions of a captain really seriously, aren't they? Just like a sergeant in 2 bn is going to take advice from a corporal from Eastern Brigade HQ, which is why the job is therefore a SNCO position.

                    Why not reduce senior nco ranks in line with the cuts you're proposing to senior officers, we can then have lots of three stars with nobody to manage them. Coming up for promotion yourself when the embargo ends?


                    Normally I put " I dont understand your point" as a delaying tactic so I can think up a witty answer -

                    But Paul I really dont understand this thread.

                    My previous thread is about the senior NCO level in E Bde HQ- its as simple as that.

                    I regularly take advice from Cpls and Privates- it will be the foolish day that I dont take advice from them-

                    We are an under resourced Defence Forces- being in it and being at the coal face so to speak I know where our weaknesses are- we have lads meeting themselves coming off duties-

                    Everyone on here who is serving still will tell you that bods on the ground are in short supply-
                    but for some reason we are over the establishment strength for Cols and Generals

                    and under teh establishment strengths for BSM's- BQ's and all the way down to Pte level.

                    Maybe the foreign lads on here will know this - but do the Brits/Canadians/Americans etc have a ratio of 1 General to 734 Men,

                    1 Col to 693 Men
                    1 Lt Col to every 533 Men.
                    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                    Are full of passionate intensity.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      The Commandant of the Naval College regularly attends conferences with other Naval colleges around the world. In ireland, this position holds the rank of Commander...
                      ... which is equivalent to an Army Lt Colonel, which to me, is a relatively senior rank
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        ... which is equivalent to an Army Lt Colonel, which to me, is a relatively senior rank
                        Not if all the others are Generals.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                          Not if all the others are Generals.
                          Valid point. But as someone else said, it's a small service we have...
                          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                          Comment


                          • Not sure if this was posted already.
                            These are the Bord Snip Submissions from the departments



                            This is the one from Defence




                            There is little mention of the RDF

                            The corresponding DOF submission :



                            Page 11 :
                            In the current context, the question arises as to whether the cost of the RDF
                            (2009 provision €10m) can be reduced. Indeed, the real question is the more
                            fundamental one as to whether the continued existence of the RDF can be
                            afforded at all.
                            Yes well thanks for that.
                            Last edited by trellheim; 15 September 2009, 17:00.
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • Those links arent working.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • They are for me, just tried again, can anyone else see them ?
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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