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  • #61
    Originally posted by kermit
    Get rid of the Bde HQs, with the exception of a core of staff. What the 58 of them in each Bde do is a mystery. Reduction ~ 150

    The RDF is supposed to be a mirror of the PDF organisation. Get rid of the C & D Coys from the Battalions that have them. This will lead to a reduction of 133 x 13 = 1729.

    Camp Staffs. WTF like? Reduction 66 * 3 = 198

    RDFTA - no requirement for anyone below the rank of Sgt. A lot of the officers can also go - Catering School? UNTSI? etc. Reduction 15

    The Integrated Reserve. Contraversial? The model didn't work. Everyone should be of that standard to begin with, not just a select few. Reduction - 2656.

    2 AD Bty - 1 AD is close enough to Dublin & Baldonnel. Reduction 83

    Total Reduction - 4831. Close enough for me.
    Am assuming that these reductions are in ESTABLISHMENT figures, as against
    ACTUAL figures ? Seeing as there's no way the Camp Staff element in any
    RDF LSB is up to a full strength of 66 !

    I feel that the outfits in Non Permanent posts may well be at risk

    As for the 500 to be cut from the PDF - well anyone who's conduct or medical
    record is questionable would have to be looking over their collective
    shoulders at this point in time...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

    Comment


    • #62
      Mod Proposal : Should we split this into separate threads

      Army + Location Implications
      AR Implications
      AC Implications
      NS/NSR Implications ?
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #63
        a reduction of 500 in the PDF

        over 2-3 years

        thats slighty over the average natural wastage for that period

        but dont forget the flock of horses from the Eq school are on the strength of the establishment

        and seeing as they are going to be burgers in France soon that

        gives us a head start of 30 Cpls off the strength straightaway
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
          a reduction of 500 in the PDF

          over 2-3 years

          thats slighty over the average natural wastage for that period

          but dont forget the flock of horses from the Eq school are on the strength of the establishment

          and seeing as they are going to be burgers in France soon that

          gives us a head start of 30 Cpls off the strength straightaway
          Will the grooms transfer as waiters to the officers mess?

          Same kind of work really

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by kermit
            OK, so where is the reduction of 4900 going to come from? Here are 4 proposals.

            Get rid of the Bde HQs, with the exception of a core of staff. What the 58 of them in each Bde do is a mystery. Reduction ~ 150

            The RDF is supposed to be a mirror of the PDF organisation. Get rid of the C & D Coys from the Battalions that have them. This will lead to a reduction of 133 x 13 = 1729.

            Camp Staffs. WTF like? Reduction 66 * 3 = 198

            RDFTA - no requirement for anyone below the rank of Sgt. A lot of the officers can also go - Catering School? UNTSI? etc. Reduction 15

            The Integrated Reserve. Contraversial? The model didn't work. Everyone should be of that standard to begin with, not just a select few. Reduction - 2656.

            2 AD Bty - 1 AD is close enough to Dublin & Baldonnel. Reduction 83

            Total Reduction - 4831. Close enough for me.
            Way too complicated.

            Here is my proposal.......

            Have a mandatory fitness test for ALL ranks and ages brought in from January and any unfit / lazy b**ger who fails gets the chop. No excuses and no hiding behind rank.

            You will be left with a leaner reserve in more ways than one and a much more useful one at that because it will be the fit and/or dedicated ones who will make the effort to pass.

            Job done overnight.

            You see the easy answer is always there.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
              Am assuming that these reductions are in ESTABLISHMENT figures, as against
              ACTUAL figures ? Seeing as there's no way the Camp Staff element in any
              RDF LSB is up to a full strength of 66 !

              I feel that the outfits in Non Permanent posts may well be at risk

              As for the 500 to be cut from the PDF - well anyone who's conduct or medical
              record is questionable would have to be looking over their collective
              shoulders at this point in time...
              The Cadre element is roughly 480... alot of older sweat who wll walk when there centres close.

              Comment


              • #67
                The NS fleet will have to soldier on.

                -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                A major reorganisation of the RDF will be required....

                DOD has recommended (to An Bord Snip (not the other way around)) RDF location closures, we are talking about a minimum of 18 locations (thats if ALL ranges & training facilities are sold, which isn't going to happen, so it will actually be more). That is 23% of RDF locations in non-permanent posts.

                "Strucural change" in the RDF has been recommended (that means units will close!)

                Reductions of 4,900 RDF personnel - if structural change is happening it will mean the establishment is reduced, but if this is 4,900 non-effective or unfilled establishment posts what will that save?

                Not top of this there will be cuts in the RDF budget of €5.6 million (on top of the cuts in December).


                ----------------------
                PDF Cuts, they are proposing that the cuts being in the following areas:
                Equitation School & RDF Cadre - 325
                ATCP, ATCA, NS Replacment programme, MATS - 70
                Overseas missions - 90
                DFHQ - 15


                ------------------
                Those who have said this is a shopping list are correct but......

                There is a VFM audit going on of the RDF, the DOD want to close RDF locations (the report says that)

                The shopping list comes to savings of € 5.31 billion, the Government need to find a minimum of € 4/5 (can't remember which) billion. Politcally is it easier to cut social welfare by 5% or do the rest??

                Remember when the Defence budget reach €1 billion? The Government is now borrowing that amount every 2.5 weeks!!!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Realistically I think the best and most cost-effective measure (much as I hate to say it) is to get rid of the non-integrated reserve.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    All right, who said Jehovah ?

                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Scenarios

                      OK. simple maths as follows;

                      Establishment = approx 12000, permitted strength at present is 7500. (Minister stated)
                      If you minus the 4900 from 12000 you get 7100, already the permitted strength, give or take.
                      Now what becomes more apparent is the budget. Savings of 2/3 of 5.6m leaves 2.8m for 2010.
                      2.8m (if all for wages) will provide 4000 bodies with 7 days FTT (avg 700euro per man)

                      2008 saw 4321 expend 81000 mandays, with 42 days limits.

                      So, if we are to stay at 7500, then only 4000 will be permitted to to FTT.
                      If however, you take the permitted strength and reduce by 4900, you get 2600 bodies, .....back to the Integration Model !!!, with a high proportion able to complete 14 days FTT.

                      I agree with Dev, sweat it down to the Integrated Model.
                      Likewise the report suggests disposal of properties other than barracks and these are
                      all RDF, So by that simple act there is no hiding place for Cadre and the geographic spread of RDF will end.
                      If you want to join, you will have to go to a PDF occupied post.
                      This will permit the suits to force the military to cut all permanent cadre and support the RDF by paying temporary allowances to rotating cadre. That will end the crazy situation that applies now where they can't move them.

                      Remember 421 cadre exist at present, for a model of 299 (WP04), yet no explicit reduction to happen with cadre despite the downsizing of the RDF.

                      Just my thoughts

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        when that heap of horse dung the Equitation School does eventually close

                        there are comrades up there who are going to be redeployed to other non horsey units

                        the enlisted personnel should by right keep their grooms pay

                        its not their fault their Unit is gone so why should they suffer fianancially
                        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                        Are full of passionate intensity.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by piper_69 View Post
                          Way too complicated.

                          Here is my proposal.......

                          Have a mandatory fitness test for ALL ranks and ages brought in from January and any unfit / lazy b**ger who fails gets the chop. No excuses and no hiding behind rank.

                          You will be left with a leaner reserve in more ways than one and a much more useful one at that because it will be the fit and/or dedicated ones who will make the effort to pass.

                          Job done overnight.

                          You see the easy answer is always there.
                          Good idea. Clean sweep, start over. Don't stop at just Medical/Fitness tests(medicals should be mandatory too, lots of people who are medically unfit to serve holding positions around the country, I'm sure you all know one). Let everyone re-apply for their appointment.
                          The Re-org put a lot of dead weight into positions of responsibility, at the expense of those who had the initiative and motivation. Sadly we lost too many of them in the last 3 years, due to discontent.
                          To be revitalised as a professional/effective force, the RDF should free itself of the shackles of the old FCA mentality. And that includes the legacy of people promoted because daddy/grandad was a comdt/cs/shooting team etc.

                          The entire system should mirror the PDF, and that includes the promotion system. You should NEVER be sent on a promotion course due to seniority. It's the only way we'll be taken seriously.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                            Mod Proposal : Should we split this into separate threads

                            Army + Location Implications
                            AR Implications
                            AC Implications
                            NS/NSR Implications ?
                            Sounds like a fun way to spend a weekend


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                              a reduction of 500 in the PDF

                              over 2-3 years

                              thats slighty over the average natural wastage for that period
                              Yes it is. The real problem is the ban on promotions.

                              Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                              but dont forget the flock of horses from the Eq school are on the strength of the establishment

                              and seeing as they are going to be burgers in France soon that

                              gives us a head start of 30 Cpls off the strength straightaway
                              The McCarthy report is a shopping list as John Gormless said today. I'm betting that the Equitation School is safe.
                              sigpic
                              Say NO to violence against Women

                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              My favourite moment was when the
                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by kermit
                                The Integrated Reserve. Contraversial? The model didn't work. Everyone should be of that standard to begin with, not just a select few. Reduction - 2656.
                                You propose to discharge 2,656 integrated reservists on the grounds that they are better trained than the non-integrated?:confused:
                                sigpic
                                Say NO to violence against Women

                                Originally posted by hedgehog
                                My favourite moment was when the
                                Originally posted by hedgehog
                                red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                                Comment

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