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  • #31
    Some great insight Jessup. Thanks for posting
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DeV View Post
      2/Lt - 15 months (ie your cadet training)
      Lt - generally around a further 18-24 months or there about (those with level 8 degrees prior to their cadet training are commissioned as Lts)

      It all depends on your annual reports, courses completed, vacancies in your corps, the promotion ban etc etc
      For the benefit of Northie that information isn't accurate.

      Cadets in Ireland are Cadets not 2/Lts. All Cadets are enlisted personnel for the 15 month course until commissioning. You have a six digit o/ranks Army Number until the day you are commissioned and then given your four digit officer Army Number. It's a great test for a spoofer. Ask them their Army number and then ask them their Cadet School number. Your service as an officer i.e. 2/Lt, doesn't start until the day you are commissioned.

      2/Lt - 2 Years
      After commissioning those without a degree spend two years as a 2/Lt. Those with a degree are commissioned as 2/Lt and promoted to Lt the next day to satisfy DFRs.

      Lt - 4 Years
      Everyone (degree, non degree, CFR) spend four years as a Lt on which you are promoted to Captain automatically on the same day as their classmates. It has nothing to do with annual reports (unless you blot your copy book), courses completed, vacancies in your corps etc.

      Captain - 10 years
      Promotion competitions for officers currently only start at Captain to Commandant. Those currently being promoted to Comdt are from 68th to 71st Cadet class who would have started in the Cadet School in '91 '92 '93 and '94 So the range of service there as a Captain before they could enter the promotion competition is from about ten years to seven years but by the time everyone on the list is promoted it's an average of ten years anyway if you imagine it without a promotion ban. I don't think I've ever heard of an officer jumping more than one class but I know of one of two officers dropping a few classes!!

      The higher you go into the competition from your Cadet School placing the better. It sounds unfair that a placing on a course you did so long ago when you were maybe still immature follows you for so long but that why the Cadets work so hard. Your class placing determines your seniority and that sticks with until the Capt to Comdt competition. Subsequent service has an influence of course but you have to remember that most of those who finish ahead of you in the Cadet School are going to have good service too.

      So if you do get the Cadets work your ass of when you're there. When things get tough just keep saying '15 for 30' to yourself. 15 months of hell for 30 years of the life of a gentleman!

      Comdt - (anywhere from 8 years to 22 years)
      There aren't enough hours in my day to explain the system of Comdt to LtCol. The variables are numerous and complicated. Cross that bridge when you come to it but some of it goes back to the Cadet School so I'd stress again to work as hard as you can there. EG Every Bn Comdr in UNIFIL made it from LtCol to Col. In an effort to be fair and 'spread it around' two Bn Comdrs were picked from each Cadet Class. So that was one Cadet Class per year. Therefore if you wanted to have any chance of making to Col via that route to had to be Inf first of all. Inf is the best Corps for promotion above Lt Col. Then you had to be one of the top two Inf officers in your class.

      Hope that's some help Northie.

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      • #33
        Great stuff Jessup, there's a wealth of info available about the BA online, but very little about the PDF.

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        • #34
          I bow to your superior knowledge jessup

          I presume you have to have successfully completed the YOs & Jun C&S Cse though??

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            I bow to your superior knowledge jessup

            I presume you have to have successfully completed the YOs & Jun C&S Cse though??
            Junior C&S has to be passed to make Comdt yes, not Captain. I can't think of anyone who has failed it

            The issue of YOs course is not as clear cut. You wouldn't necessarily have to complete one of these to be promoted.

            The Cadet school qualifies every officer as an Inf Pln Comdr. Hence Inf Pln Comdrs o/seas that are Arty, S&T, etc. Has changed recently with smaller o/seas units and more than enough Inf Lts to go around. In my experience Inf YOs were very irregular and when one did happen there were all sorts of exemptions, EG Served overseas already. So there are plenty of senior Inf Offrs out there who never did a YOs.

            The logic being that there is no major skills gap from the Cadet School. Having said that, the recent reduction from 21 to 15 months in the Cadet Sch might have created that gap. Does anyone know if the three month Light Inf Sp Wpns Cse is still done in the Cadet School? The BA Inf YOs is made up mostly of that, allowing Sandhurst to be only seven months.

            The Corps are different and YOs courses are held every few years. Some Corps are so small that you might make Captain before doing a YOs and then not being 'young' never do one. You might miss one course because you're in college and the next because you're overseas. You can't be 'punished' then and not promoted with your peers. I'm thinking S&T and CIS here in particular.

            It could apply to Arty and Cav too but these are the two least likely Corps where you would not have done a YOs. The first reason is that you normally must have completed your YOs to serve in a junior officer Cav or Arty o/seas appointment. The second reason is those Corps have a 'Standard Course' and you might find this very difficult to complete if you didn't do the YOs.

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            • #36
              The logic being that there is no major skills gap from the Cadet School. Having said that, the recent reduction from 21 to 15 months in the Cadet Sch might have created that gap. Does anyone know if the three month Light Inf Sp Wpns Cse is still done in the Cadet School?
              The new PSO platoon cmdrs course helps to make up from the reduction, it is undertaken by all who have passed through the Cadet School and is 4 months long.

              Comment


              • #37
                Excellent idea. Personally I think they could shave another three months of the Cadet Sch and make it 12 months. There's a lot of stupid sub courses and bullshit academics on it. That would make it an extremely attractive offering for Graduates. Do a Masters or Post Graduate Diploma that will cost you X and might lead to SFA or in the same time you can paid to do a Cadetship which will lead to a rewarding career.

                The only problem with that is it would see an end to the Senior Class / Junior Class dynamic and also halve the staff requirement for the Cdt Sch so can't see it happening.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I like this mans style.

                  Jessup has just brought a new degree and knowledge to the board in several threads well done this man.

                  I'm not qualified to post on it as I have only come across certain aspects of it but it makes good reading..keep it up
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                    Excellent idea. Personally I think they could shave another three months of the Cadet Sch and make it 12 months. There's a lot of stupid sub courses and bullshit academics on it. That would make it an extremely attractive offering for Graduates. Do a Masters or Post Graduate Diploma that will cost you X and might lead to SFA or in the same time you can paid to do a Cadetship which will lead to a rewarding career.
                    It looks like a lot of the non military subjects have been taken out:
                    During this time the cadet is instructed in weapons handling (to instructor level), tactics (conventional, internal security and counter–insurgency), arms and foot drill, military engineering, human resource management, communications skills, military law, computer training in office information systems and academic studies which include leadership, psychology, Irish and military history, politics and economics.
                    I do seriously believe they need to move towards short service commissions and ending/cutting back on the USAC scheme.
                    Last edited by DeV; 11 August 2009, 00:21.

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                    • #40
                      I'm afraid what Jessup said about every Lt. Col, that commanded a a UNIFIL BN . is inaccurate. A Friend of mine, cant remember which Bn, he was in charge of never made it past Lt. Col. and retired at that rank.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Drylander View Post
                        I'm afraid what Jessup said about every Lt. Col, that commanded a a UNIFIL BN . is inaccurate. A Friend of mine, cant remember which Bn, he was in charge of never made it past Lt. Col. and retired at that rank.
                        Are you sure it wasn't one of the trips to Eritrea? That was a horrible trip and the Lt Col paid a heavy price indeed.

                        Even the Bn Comdr of the '72.5' Bn got promoted (the one where the lads sold the .5 HMG). I can stand over the 70Bn to the 89Bn for sure. That's 20/20. Maybe there is one exception from the 43Bn to the 69Bn but I doubt it.

                        Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that a successful o/seas tour as a Unit Comdr is a shoe in for promotion. Many officers would be able to complete such an assignment but they never get the chance. I'm sorry that your friend didn't make it to full Col but he got a really fighting chance the many Lt Cols never get.

                        I was trying to explain for the benefit of some posters asking about promotion that your performance in the Cdt Sch follows you for a long time. You will increase your chances of being picked as an o/seas Unit Comdr the more senior you are within your Cadet Class and that starts by going Infantry, trying to finish as high as possible in your class and maintaining that position in subsequent promotion competitions.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Ah Jessup

                          you are a rock of sense- except

                          the lads never sold that .5-

                          convictions were overturned- 2 innocent lads

                          though one prick of a Comdt who couldnt site a jacks never mind a .5 is now a civy-

                          the only guilty one out of this entire debacle is that prick of a God fearing born again Comdt and the

                          idiot whoo decided to entrust the lives of men into the nads of a lad who couldnt wipe his own

                          arse without checking to see how it would affect his career-
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Oh yeah I forgot about that. That's partly what started the review of the whole courts martial thing and the first military judge etc.

                            Back to the Army officer angle, that started this thread and what they do. That's a prime example of 'an officer is responsible for everything his/her troops do and fail to do'

                            Overseas is a great opportunity to further your career but it can also kill it!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Jessup speaks the truth.

                              To the initial poster of this thread: take out all the cynicism and put in an application. Officers do lots of good work and then too much paperwork. Much is expected of them and getting through the training is not easy. Why? They take responisbility. Not that soldiers, sailors or aircrew of enlisted rank don't. But ultimately it's the officer is expected to make the decision, give direction to his/her troops and make it happen. It doesn't matter if that order is to march on parade for a guard of honour or to 'follow me' over the hill, it's your call. And when you get it worong you'll know all about it.

                              Don't let that scare you. The training is tough, but progressive. Some of it is unnecessary, but all of it actually forms you into the basic model for an officer. The troops in your first unit, your first overseas trip (for the army) and your first real fu@k up take the rough edges off you. If you're lucky, you meet a good CO and good officers around you early on. These will rub off on you. Don't mind the 'high stool' talk...being in charge of Irish soldiers is one of the best jobs in the world. And that's on a bad day. When you meet good NCO's you'll just know who they are. They are SO important to you that you should nurture them, expecially the young one's, 'cos they're the C/S's and BSM;s of the future.

                              They won;t all love you...but if you do what you're supposed to, they'll respect you. Give it a lash. I highly recommend it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I cant actually fault your post Parade Boy

                                some of our Officers are great some are shite

                                some of our NCOs are great some are shite- cest la gurre


                                When you meet good NCO's you'll just know who they are. They are SO important to you that you should nurture them, expecially the young one's, 'cos they're the C/S's and BSM;s of the future.
                                that should be tatood on the arse of every Cadet.

                                except replace the word THE with YOUR


                                Now I demand you write something I can pick holes and find fault with- off you go
                                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                                Are full of passionate intensity.

                                Comment

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