Thanks Thanks:  2
Likes Likes:  1
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 136

Thread: Army Officers

  1. #51
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    I think you may have responded to my thanks. Actually, my interest is in an existing cadet. And his future, if successful. The progression through the ranks was insightful as was the class placement indicators. I'd heard, albeit from a Naval Officer, that class placement had little relevance but your post seems to indicate that, for the army at least, it can follow you through till captaincy.
    If I've mistaken your post, apologies, no offence meant.
    The Naval Officer might not be wrong. Their intake is so small that all Executive Officers will make it to LtCdr (Army - Comdt) and command a ship. They won't all make it to Cdr etc.

    But in the Army the seniority that you leave the Cadet School with stays until you are promoted Comdt. That's not to say that everyone will know that some have coasted and others have improved since the Cadet School so there are rarely big surprises if there 'jumpers' and 'fallers' in the two lists.

    But it does have a big impact prior to that day. Two examples;

    Two classmates as junior captains. Identical careers both back from their last overseas mission the same length of time. One finished ten places ahead of the other due to 'cuteness' in the Cadet School but has coasted since. The junior man has worked really hard since commissioning and is currently expected to jump his classmate at Capt to Comdt. A really attractive o/seas mission comes up which is sure to help your chances at the promotion competition. Both apply. Who will get it? The senior man. By the sheer virtue of getting the trip on his file he's now back in the lead even though he's spent the last ten years taking it easy.

    Two classmates as senior captains. An Inf Coy in a Bn has lost their OC to o/seas and the 2i/c to a course. The two captains are being posted in as the OC and 2i/c. The dogs in the street know that the senior man was lucky in the Cadet School and hasn't the same man management skills as his junior classmate. However, he is the senior man and has to be posted as the acting Comdt. Off they go sometime later for interview and guess which one has acting Comdt on his file? That's plus one for him over his junior classmate.

    Tell your friend to try and finish as high as possible. It's not the end of the world if he/she doesn't but it helps.

  2. #52
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    The Naval Officer might not be wrong. Their intake is so small that all Executive Officers will make it to LtCdr (Army - Comdt) and command a ship. They won't all make it to Cdr etc.

    But in the Army the seniority that you leave the Cadet School with stays until you are promoted Comdt. That's not to say that everyone will know that some have coasted and others have improved since the Cadet School so there are rarely big surprises if there 'jumpers' and 'fallers' in the two lists.

    But it does have a big impact prior to that day. Two examples;

    Two classmates as junior captains. Identical careers both back from their last overseas mission the same length of time. One finished ten places ahead of the other due to 'cuteness' in the Cadet School but has coasted since. The junior man has worked really hard since commissioning and is currently expected to jump his classmate at Capt to Comdt. A really attractive o/seas mission comes up which is sure to help your chances at the promotion competition. Both apply. Who will get it? The senior man. By the sheer virtue of getting the trip on his file he's now back in the lead even though he's spent the last ten years taking it easy.

    Two classmates as senior captains. An Inf Coy in a Bn has lost their OC to o/seas and the 2i/c to a course. The two captains are being posted in as the OC and 2i/c. The dogs in the street know that the senior man was lucky in the Cadet School and hasn't the same man management skills as his junior classmate. However, he is the senior man and has to be posted as the acting Comdt. Off they go sometime later for interview and guess which one has acting Comdt on his file? That's plus one for him over his junior classmate.

    Tell your friend to try and finish as high as possible. It's not the end of the world if he/she doesn't but it helps.
    Thanks. What you say makes sense as Army life will mirror " real " ( or civvy st. ) life and the better start gets noticed. Don't they say that someone with the reputation for getting up early can lie in bed till lunchtime !

  3. #53
    Banned User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    First of all Officers learn how to walk funnyish, its part and parcel of trg , H. Hog should remember a few from the Brugha , Collins's around the 70s/80s who walked as if they had a carrot .. etc etc.

  4. #54
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    Don't they say that someone with the reputation for getting up early can lie in bed till lunchtime !
    You better believe it. I'm a culchie so our expression is 'that fella is hurling on his reputation'. A guy who is getting picked ahead of others based on some ancient deeds and not based on more recent performance and future potential.

  5. #55
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    Are officers encouraged to own a dog ? Am convinced most of ours get issued a lab aong with their kit

  6. #56
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    Are officers encouraged to own a dog ? Am convinced most of ours get issued a lab aong with their kit
    Yes usually called Breda or Fidellma

    normally they are on the camogie team of their local parish as they are deemed to hairy
    for ladies GAA- they bring them to the Cadet School

    but after commissioning they are abandioned

    it should be remembered and taught as a lesson

    culchie women are not just for debs or your brithers wedding
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #57
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Its an optional issue item when they get their crossed swords. That, or a pipe, or a cane, or a handlebar mustache, etc. etc.

  8. #58
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    Awesome posts , hedge youre a gas man

  9. #59
    Banned User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Dont forget the blackthorn stick for Lt Cols and a few Comdt, Also the course on how not to wear a beret for senior officers,
    h. Hog is rt about the camogie teams, also a few rugger types , knew an NCO who had the temerity to "hit it off" with the adjutants girldfriend ( I am a gentleman so no names or details) you would think he had been caught bonking the pope , it was considered just not on by the gents , other thouight it showed that he may have officer potential.. , another guy married another adjutants daughter, guess what? he was commissioned , ...

  10. #60
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is there any eliteism in the officers corps ? There are units here like the guards and the gunners that are very selective about who joins their cap badge.

  11. #61
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    I know soemone who is a senior and who is married to an officer, would never have been allowed not so long ago but thankfully the army is being dragged kicking and screaming into line with the rest of society

  12. #62
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    Is there any eliteism in the officers corps ? There are units here like the guards and the gunners that are very selective about who joins their cap badge.
    Not Units that stand out for various things

    My own Unit is like the Russian front or a Penal Battalion for Officers or -

    we dont usually do the same as your lads in the Guards/ Household divisions-

    to be fair to our Officers we have some great lads- I could say that in my time I have come across about 7 idiots that you wouldnt let tie their own shoe lace-

    the newer generation of Officers are just like the young Soldiers
    some great some middling some piss poor attitudes- thats society and

    all societies failures and in fact the recession and just about every shitty thing in this world

    can be blamed on Jim Shreenan- an ex cos of staff but present idiot ( he takes up 2 spaces in my list of 7 idiots)

    Its great to serve with some of the good new young Oficers because they are full of enthusiasm and ability.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  13. #63
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    So Hedge, in your time , what percentage of young officers have come in and tried to lay down the law and how many have come in and listened ?

  14. #64
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    1 or 2 over the years would have tried to lay down the law

    but the majority would listen

    saying that if a new Platoon Commander lays down the law- then its the law- like it or lump it.

    I think if they have been trained by a good NCO in the college then they will be more trusting and

    eager to learn from their own NCO's- whereas if they were trained by an ejit well then what do you expect- ejits begat other ejits.

    is it the same in your neck of the woods Knocker
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  15. #65
    Closed knocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like
    Pretty much yea, am lucky at the minute, my troop commander is wide open to suggestion and has only had a few " moments of genius" !

  16. #66
    C/S ArdMhacha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Newry
    Posts
    279
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is there much provision for sport during Cadet training??

  17. #67
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Cadets are required to participate in sport facilities are available for a number of different sports. It is even allowed for in the weekly programme!

  18. #68
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ArdMhacha View Post
    Is there much provision for sport during Cadet training??
    Depends on what you mean by 'provision'. As part of program in Cdt Sch its a huge part.

    If you want to hold on to your sport outside the Cdt Sch it might have to take second place until you finish. If you're a bit of 'star' on your local club team don't think that gives you a God given right to get special treatment. It depends on who is pulling the strings in the Cdt Sch but if you're on tactics for two weeks and the county final is on then forget about it. There can be a similar approach on Saturdays. If you have a match in Donegal at 1400 on Sat and the program ends on Sat at 1230 then tough shit.

    As for weeknight training with your club I'd say forget about it. I'm out a few years now so ask some of the newer blades. The system was that you would get practically zero time off between intake and Christmas, but that has probably been watered down somewhat. It's all part of the 'indoctrination'. If you can't handle 14 weeks in the Curragh away from your in-bred GAA club then 16 weeks in Chad is not for you!

  19. #69
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    So Hedge, in your time , what percentage of young officers have come in and tried to lay down the law and how many have come in and listened ?
    That works both way gents. A 2/Lt in my Bde 'listened' to his Pln Sgt and it nearly cost him his career. I think the only thing that saved his ass is that he stayed in camp and the subsequent investigation proved that even an experienced Captain might have been unable to forsee or prevent what happened.

    Very experienced Sgt and Cpls in a BTC (or CTD as they were at the time). Recruit Pln back in camp on Sunday between weeks 1 and 2 of tactics. 2/Lt wants Recruits confined particualrly if DS's are going into town. Listens to his NCOs, allows them out based on the assurance that there is an early curfew for the Recruits and the DS's and Recruits don't socialise together. All the male recruits bar one return by curfew. The DS's 'accidently' meet some the Recruits in a pub and take it upon themselves to extend the pass for all the female recruits and one male.

    You can see where this is going......DS's beat up each each other, Two DS's batter the remaining male recruit and at least two of the females made allegations against the DS's as well.

    The incident was well publicised around the Bde and was used as a cautionary tale for all YOs in the years that followed. I'd say it took years to build up that trust again. Just because you're 22 and your Pln Sgt is 42 doesn't mean that you as the Officer can't exercise better judgment and you shouldn't be afraid to lay down the law as well as listen.

  20. #70
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    your dead right

    there are because of numbers- more NCO clowns than Officer clowns.

    I never heard that story though

    what Bde was it in
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  21. #71
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    your dead right

    there are because of numbers- more NCO clowns than Officer clowns.

    I never heard that story though

    what Bde was it in
    South. It was the first of the 'yellow packs' in 1994. It was well 'handled' if you know what I mean as the OC of the BTC was chasing Lt Col and the 2i/c was chasing Comdt. The 2/Lt came out of it reasonably unscathed and has left the DF since but I don't think he ever fully trusted NCOs again and developed a reputation as a bit of bollix. By the book all the way.

  22. #72
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    thats always the problem

    a good Officer is turned by a bad NCO

    and vice versa
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  23. #73
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    Depends on what you mean by 'provision'. As part of program in Cdt Sch its a huge part.

    If you want to hold on to your sport outside the Cdt Sch it might have to take second place until you finish. If you're a bit of 'star' on your local club team don't think that gives you a God given right to get special treatment. It depends on who is pulling the strings in the Cdt Sch but if you're on tactics for two weeks and the county final is on then forget about it. There can be a similar approach on Saturdays. If you have a match in Donegal at 1400 on Sat and the program ends on Sat at 1230 then tough shit.

    As for weeknight training with your club I'd say forget about it. I'm out a few years now so ask some of the newer blades. The system was that you would get practically zero time off between intake and Christmas, but that has probably been watered down somewhat. It's all part of the 'indoctrination'. If you can't handle 14 weeks in the Curragh away from your in-bred GAA club then 16 weeks in Chad is not for you!
    There are plenty of cadets representing the DF at various levels on various teams & also in individual sports.

    Your club will be the cadet school or the DF, inter-county it may be possible to play for your county (especially if you play for Roscommon (only messing!)).
    Last edited by DeV; 17th August 2009 at 21:44.

  24. #74
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    877
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Jessup, could you elaborate as to what kind of sports would be part of the syllabus? I'll give anything my best shot, however in school it was always athletics and outdoor pursuits I was into - sadly lacking in skills with games that involve balls. The "ethos" of the school I went to also meant that rugby was an unmentionable word, so I've little idea of that either. I have no hesitation about getting stuck in to anything new whether I'm good or bad at it but In the unlikely event of getting in, I have visions of being made an ejit of by a crowd of intercounty GAA players on a regular basis. Then again, I do come complete with some good mountain/backpacking experience to compensate....................

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by northie; 17th August 2009 at 22:16.

  25. #75
    D.C.B. dahamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    peoples republic
    Posts
    242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    That works both way gents. A 2/Lt in my Bde 'listened' to his Pln Sgt and it nearly cost him his career. I think the only thing that saved his ass is that he stayed in camp and the subsequent investigation proved that even an experienced Captain might have been unable to forsee or prevent what happened.

    Very experienced Sgt and Cpls in a BTC (or CTD as they were at the time). Recruit Pln back in camp on Sunday between weeks 1 and 2 of tactics. 2/Lt wants Recruits confined particualrly if DS's are going into town. Listens to his NCOs, allows them out based on the assurance that there is an early curfew for the Recruits and the DS's and Recruits don't socialise together. All the male recruits bar one return by curfew. The DS's 'accidently' meet some the Recruits in a pub and take it upon themselves to extend the pass for all the female recruits and one male.

    You can see where this is going......DS's beat up each each other, Two DS's batter the remaining male recruit and at least two of the females made allegations against the DS's as well.

    The incident was well publicised around the Bde and was used as a cautionary tale for all YOs in the years that followed. I'd say it took years to build up that trust again. Just because you're 22 and your Pln Sgt is 42 doesn't mean that you as the Officer can't exercise better judgment and you shouldn't be afraid to lay down the law as well as listen.
    Those two DS were mickeyheads to be fair.

    The lady recruits were well able to bat their eyelashes as 3 stars as well.

    Senior ncos were known to swoon at those lashes

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •