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  1. #1
    zzzzing! CS Gass's Avatar
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    going enlisted instead of commissioned

    Hello all,

    Could any members of the PDF provide any examples of the advantages of being Other Ranks in the Army over being an officer? I'm sure there are plenty, perhaps its the courses open to you or the chances of getting overseas more often etc

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    well now more than ever you have to look at the long term picture, pension and promotion conditions are very good for officers (practically guaranteed commandant rank) college education for free etc. Good overseas prospects when you finish college (USAC).
    However on the other hand if you are an other rank and are interested in your career you have excellent prospects for courses for overseas.
    So with everything there are pro's and con's, you just need to decide what would appeal to you more

  3. #3
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    We're better at soccer.


    That's about it.

  4. #4
    Private 2*
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    A lobatomy is optional?

  5. #5
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    Alaska
    Do the enlisted scum play the officers at rugby / football at any time during the year ? We have a tradition that there is a game just before christmas leave

  6. #6
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    No 2 ways about it- Go Officer if you can


    apart from the easier ride- you never have to worry about paying your car insurance- ( Come on Kermit you know you want to)
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    Alaska
    Do the enlisted scum play the officers at rugby / football at any time during the year ? We have a tradition that there is a game just before christmas leave
    The Officers and NCO's played against each other today in a game of soccer, which the Officers won.

    Privates aren't allowed play against the NCO's and Officers because it would most likely end in a fight of some sort. Plus, we'd hammer the lot of them.


    Like HH said, if I was to advise anyone on the choice between General Enlistment or a Cadetship, it'd be a Cadetship every time.

  8. #8
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Privates arent allowed

    because who else would hold our towels and be there to wipe the sweat off our brow at half time-

    Privates are allowed use the pitches when its dark and no one else wants them.

    Privates know your place-
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  9. #9
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    I think the contract is longer for officers though.12 years as opposed to 5 years

  10. #10
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    The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
    The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudolf Neff View Post
    The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
    The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.
    RN,


    You might be interested in watching a speech by Captain Patrick Hennessy at the Royal United Services Institute where he covers some very pertinent points- especially from 10 mins.+ in the 14 min.video. Patrick Hennessy was the youngest Captain in the British Army and saw service in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is the author of "The Junior Officers' Reading Club" and will also appear in the BBC series on the war in Afghanistan to be broadcast in June.

    He is a credit to the British Army and here gives some modern thinking into the demise of the class system in the army and has some interesting thoughts on the capabilities of junior officers/Nco's.

    http://www.rusi.org/analysis/comment...4CC94EBAE679E/




    Independent review of TJORC by PH.

    A tech-savvy Oxford graduate of the iPod generation spends the day spaced out on a high-decibel, high-adrenalin activity that leaves him feeling that "nowhere else sells bliss like this". As for the chilled come-down after those hours of brain-tingling rapture, it resembles "the end of some massive night in a hardcore warehouse". What has this ultra-cool dude, who drops phrases such as "post-modern irony" as readily as he customises Amy Winehouse lyrics, been doing?


    He has been commanding a platoon of the Grenadier Guards as they turn the firepower of the British army (Nato approvals and UN resolutions all present and correct) on Taliban ambushers in the parched badlands of Helmand province, in southern Afghanistan, in May 2007. Mullah Omar's driver, it turns out, would not come home from that rave in one piece. "Something", this officer decides in the downtime after a near-orgasmic fire-fight, "was needed to shake us out of the dangerous enjoyment we were getting from it all."
    Last edited by timhorgan; 15th May 2011 at 13:05.

  12. #12
    D.C.B. dahamster's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=hedgehog;281987]No 2 ways about it- Go Officer if you can


    QUOTE]

    +1

  13. #13
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

    I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

  14. #14
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

    I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.
    Excellent news jungle congratulations
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

  15. #15
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    Good Luck on the next stage of your career.

  16. #16
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudolf Neff View Post
    The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
    The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.
    i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.

    and well done on the commissioning Jungle.
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 15th May 2011 at 17:18.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  17. #17
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    great post tim

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by holdfast View Post
    great post tim
    Thanks HF- but all credit to Patrick Hennessy - bearing in mind he was putting it to probably the complete General Staff.

  19. #19
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

  20. #20
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The best comparison I saw with civvy street is NCOs are supervisors, Officers are management.

  21. #21
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    NCOs also have a wee thing called experience that no amount of time in the lecture hall will prepare an officer for. Irrelevant of nationality , it would be a very foolish officer, at unit level ( be that company / batallion ) who doesnt consult their relevant ncos
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing
    If you are referring to my post Knocker then please understand that I was referring to Captain Patrick Hennessy of the Grenadier Guards who

    a) Has an enviable academic record- Oxford & Sandhurst
    b) Has extensive combat experience commanding men both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    c) Made a point of referring in his interesting lecture specifically to the fact that he thinks that more thought should be given to the subject of senior NCOs and Junior Officers level of responsibility.

    I thought that it would be interesting for people on here to look at his lecture-that is all. People can then make up their own mind- or do you see yourself as being one of the sole interpreters for us of what goes on in the British Army or who we should listen to.

    For my part, I will continue to think for myself. I will always be happy to quote yourself if you are invited to address RUSI and it is relevant to a thread here. In the meantime, it is difficult to see how you consider your contribution as being more important than that of the talented young Captain and why you should want to censor it.
    Last edited by timhorgan; 15th May 2011 at 22:21.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudolf Neff View Post
    The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
    The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

    "The one aspect that puts the officer apart is that, NCOs, in general terms, do not command soldiers"

    RN- you are of course quite right and you are in pretty exalted company.
    General Sir Mike Jackson wrote this paper- as you know he was CGS of the British Army, and the above quotation is from his paper. Worth reading in the context of this thread.


    http://www.ukdf.org.uk/assets/downlo...nedOfficer.pdf


    RGJ: i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.
    I am afraid, like you RN- I am with the General on this one.
    Last edited by timhorgan; 15th May 2011 at 23:24.

  24. #24
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timhorgan View Post
    Captain Patrick Hennessy at the Royal United Services Institute
    He has a very thinly veiled dig at the Typhoon during his talk, wonder how that went down with his audience.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

    I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.
    Sounds like an interesting next ten years. Congratulations and best of luck.

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