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  • #16
    Originally posted by Rudolf Neff View Post
    The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
    The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.
    i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.

    and well done on the commissioning Jungle.
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 15 May 2011, 17:18.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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    • #17
      great post tim

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      • #18
        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
        great post tim
        Thanks HF- but all credit to Patrick Hennessy - bearing in mind he was putting it to probably the complete General Staff.

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        • #19
          As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing
          Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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          • #20
            The best comparison I saw with civvy street is NCOs are supervisors, Officers are management.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #21
              NCOs also have a wee thing called experience that no amount of time in the lecture hall will prepare an officer for. Irrelevant of nationality , it would be a very foolish officer, at unit level ( be that company / batallion ) who doesnt consult their relevant ncos
              Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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              • #22
                Originally posted by knocker View Post
                As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing
                If you are referring to my post Knocker then please understand that I was referring to Captain Patrick Hennessy of the Grenadier Guards who

                a) Has an enviable academic record- Oxford & Sandhurst
                b) Has extensive combat experience commanding men both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
                c) Made a point of referring in his interesting lecture specifically to the fact that he thinks that more thought should be given to the subject of senior NCOs and Junior Officers level of responsibility.

                I thought that it would be interesting for people on here to look at his lecture-that is all. People can then make up their own mind- or do you see yourself as being one of the sole interpreters for us of what goes on in the British Army or who we should listen to.

                For my part, I will continue to think for myself. I will always be happy to quote yourself if you are invited to address RUSI and it is relevant to a thread here. In the meantime, it is difficult to see how you consider your contribution as being more important than that of the talented young Captain and why you should want to censor it.
                Last edited by timhorgan; 15 May 2011, 22:21.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Rudolf Neff View Post
                  The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
                  The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

                  "The one aspect that puts the officer apart is that, NCOs, in general terms, do not command soldiers"

                  RN- you are of course quite right and you are in pretty exalted company.
                  General Sir Mike Jackson wrote this paper- as you know he was CGS of the British Army, and the above quotation is from his paper. Worth reading in the context of this thread.





                  RGJ: i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.
                  I am afraid, like you RN- I am with the General on this one.
                  Last edited by timhorgan; 15 May 2011, 23:24.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
                    Captain Patrick Hennessy at the Royal United Services Institute
                    He has a very thinly veiled dig at the Typhoon during his talk, wonder how that went down with his audience.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jungle View Post
                      Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

                      I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.
                      Sounds like an interesting next ten years. Congratulations and best of luck.

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                      • #26
                        I agree with Rgj. Mission command and strategic corporal theories combined with 3 block war will see jnco and snco making some very serious command decisions
                        "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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                        • #27
                          Capt Hennessy said as much in his after dinner as Tim H has posted.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Orion View Post
                            He has a very thinly veiled dig at the Typhoon during his talk, wonder how that went down with his audience.

                            He is not afraid to speak his mind- debate here with Gen.Richards.



                            excerpt:
                            Clarke: But do you worry that the Wootton Bassett effect may make the soldiers look like victims of government policy instead of instruments of government policy? It’s very individualised.

                            Richards: No, I haven’t really picked that up myself, but I can see why that is something we should be wary of. But on the whole it’s been a huge bonus for us.

                            Hennessey: Is there not a danger of what one might call “Diana-fication” of our culture, being less stoical about death and injury? There might be quite serious consequences here for the army—there are things coming through the courts at the moment where the MoD is being sued by mothers of people who’ve died, who are challenging tactical decisions made on the ground that have led to the death of someone. And there are tabloid outcries about payouts to soldiers who have been badly injured being too low. But in the event that we ever did have to fight a conventional war, the sums would be prohibitively high.
                            Last edited by timhorgan; 15 May 2011, 23:51.

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                            • #29
                              Congratulations Jungle..what Rank are you commissioned at given your previous service and will your rank be capped in light of the fact you have come through the ranks?
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
                                He is not afraid to speak his mind- debate here with Gen.Richards.
                                Yes can see that.

                                On the one hand he is a radical thinker but on the other he will uphold the traditional/establishment line. Either way he seems comfortable speaking his mind.

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