Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Court Martial & punishment in the DF

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Steamy Window View Post
    where did the "digger" name come from for the Curragh Military Prison?
    Digging a GPMG trench, filling it in, digging another, filling it in and continue until sentence is served?

    Comment


    • Check out 3:30

      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

      Comment


      • I guess he took the punishment rather than challenge it. I think he shouldn't have to do that shit for five days as it's a waste of a man's utility, especially in a war zone. Better if they sorted out their system of detailing men for duty, espcially the individual responsible for making out the detail in the first place.
        regards
        GttC

        Comment


        • Digging a GPMG trench, filling it in, digging another, filling it in and continue until sentence is served?
          French Drains as they were known in the past, digging two pits one to fill the other endlessly
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • Michael Clifford in todays Sunday Tribune

            puts this Court Martial into perspective-

            I cant find an online copy (sorry)

            but basically he is saying that if this silly matter can take up so much of the time and money

            of the Defence Forces, then maybe we have to many officers within the Defence Forces

            and other juicy bon mots
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • This article HH?

              Michael Clifford - "A few pertinent questions arise about the Irish army's 'prickgate' farce: do these boys take themselves too seriously?"

              Can you handle the truth? Picture this: a large room in a military barracks. A fair shake of stern-looking officers are standing about, all shiny buttons, and the odd medal. The air is thick with the smell of boot polish. Silence permeates the room, ratcheting up the tension. Military policemen are present in case things get out of hand.

              The only people who look to have been plucked from civilian life are two barristers, togged out in wigs and gowns, and a solicitor, who has hung onto his civvie threads. For what is about to unfold is the court martial of a highly regarded officer who flew too close to the sun.

              Enter a procession of officers, comprising the jury. They advance on their appointed seats to the jingle jangle of medals won in the course of service. You wouldn't mess with these boys.

              The judge, a military man himself, reads out the charge against the defendant. What treasonous act has this man perpetrated? Did he sell military secrets to the Russians? Did he drive his men too hard? Was he planning a coup d'état?


              Nile Donohoe: faces the prospect of being the first officer to be ejected from the defense forces

              No. The charge was that "you, Comdt Nile Donohoe did use the following words to your commanding officer: 'you little prick'."

              This is not a scene from 'Carry On Up The Irish Army'. Unfortunately it is a scene from real life, one that went down at McKee barracks in Dublin on 24 May last.

              Nile Donohoe is a 47-year-old squadron commander in the Air Corps. He is a father of two young children and a man who has been commended for the military service he has rendered over 28 years. One character witness who appeared on his behalf told the military court that Donohoe had made savings for the defence forces of at least €1.5m through his research into the installation of something called a modular fuel rig.

              (That one army officer could be responsible for such a huge saving suggests that either he is a Michael O'Leary clone, or the military has no respect for money.) Another witness recalled that Donohoe had once saved a man who was under fire in the Lebanon.

              Now, all that service was up in the air, along with his future, and all because he may have called a superior a little prick in a private conversation. Donohoe denied that he called the officer in question, Lieut Colonel Gerry O'Sullivan, any kind of a prick, big, little or otherwise. He says he used the expression "this is a little prickly", which was misheard by O'Sullivan. On such matters did the august and shiny gathering assemble in McKee barracks, at some expense to the state.

              The alleged insult occurred on 30 January 2009 at Casement Aerodrome in Baldonnel, when O'Sullivan was giving Donohoe his appraisal for the previous year. Relations between the two men were not good. Donohoe had, since July 2007, suffered work-related sickness which kept him out of work on a number of occasions. Prior to that he had consistently received good appraisals.

              On this occasion, his superior officer, O'Sullivan, awarded him the lowest possible appraisal, "unsatisfactory".

              At some stage following this, Donohoe either said, "you're a little prick", or "this is a little prickly". There was nobody else present to judge whether an insult was issued or whether it was just a man musing on a situation that was sticky, or even a little prickly.

              The result was a court martial nearly 18 months later. Over the course of a five-day trial, up to a dozen witnesses were called, none of whom had actually witnessed the exchange. In the end, the five-member jury of his fellow officers, found Donohoe guilty of using insulting language to a superior officer. The offence carries a maximum term of two years' imprisonment.

              The military judge, Col Tony McCourt, told Donohoe that the offence warranted 12 months in prison and dismissal with disgrace, but after taking into account mitigating factors, he would just dismiss Donohoe from the force.

              McCourt accused the defendant of taking advantage of the fact that he and O'Sullivan were alone so that nobody else would hear the insult. That was a "grave mistake," the judge said.

              Donohoe now faces the prospect of being the first officer to be ejected from the defence forces. If it wasn't so serious for him, and so expensive for the state, it would make fine comedy.

              A few pertinent questions arise about this farce.

              Notwithstanding the need for discipline etc, in an army, do some of these boys take themselves a tad too seriously? These officers enter as cadets and lead relatively charmed lives in a defence force that, to a large extent, is still divided along class lines.

              When a situation like prickgate arises, is it possible in such a cocooned milieu for a so-called jury of peers to negotiate their way through army politics to find a verdict based solely on facts? In any event, even if the verdict is correct, does the punishment reasonably fit the crime?

              The most pertinent question of all is does the state, at this point in its history, really require over 1,200 commissioned officers in a defence force numbering 9,300 personnel? The forces did commendable peacekeeping work abroad until the last mission ended last month, but perhaps it is time to debate whether that is sufficient reason to maintain its strength, particularly at officer level. The recent carry-on suggests some people might have too much time on their hands.

              Donohoe has indicated he is appealing the conviction and sentence. Good luck to him.

              mclifford@tribune.ie

              June 6, 2010


              Last edited by Vickers; 6 June 2010, 23:37. Reason: Fix image
              "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

              Comment


              • Thats the one- thanks V
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

                Comment


                • Seems to be a string of complaints outstanding at O'Sullivans door, this guy si quite a hand full.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                    Michael Clifford in todays Sunday Tribune

                    puts this Court Martial into perspective-

                    I cant find an online copy (sorry)

                    but basically he is saying that if this silly matter can take up so much of the time and money

                    of the Defence Forces, then maybe we have to many officers within the Defence Forces

                    and other juicy bon mots
                    Snide little bit prickly isn't he ! I've noticed an anti-DF bias in his "work " over the last year or so since the er em downturn !

                    Comment


                    • There are nine more charges in line for this guy as far as I know. I heard they are big and they want to get rid of him rather than have them put in public.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by terrier View Post
                        Snide little bit prickly isn't he ! I've noticed an anti-DF bias in his "work " over the last year or so since the er em downturn !
                        I think Clifford is a good journalist- 1 week I hate the next I think he is the new Myers

                        but this piece really hits the nail on the head-


                        As a Military we need discpline- we need to know that orders will be obeyed

                        things get done and the respect for rank is there-

                        the problem as I see it is proportionality-

                        this and the recent sentencing has not been proportionate-

                        for this case alone there was a Senior Counsel- a Junior Counsel and a Solicitor

                        on the Defence side- this would have cost in the region of 15-20 K.


                        Now you look at that from the point of view of a civy- they would no doubt see it

                        like Clifford (and me) as a criminal waste of money- in that 1 guy called his boss a prick

                        and was caught- and remember this took 18 months to get to trial.

                        The Defence Forces by allowing such a piddling trifle get aired in the public arena

                        must have been using the same PR advisors as the IDF.
                        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                        Are full of passionate intensity.

                        Comment


                        • I have to say i wholeheartedly agree with HH on this one.I also have to say i agree with Cliffords observations regarding the officer corps numbers and the class system.Sad but true.
                          (Before anybody jumps on their High horse i am putting this on record.I AM NOT ANTI-OFFICER)
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                          Comment


                          • I never realised there were so many officers in our DF. What would be the average ratio of officers to enlisted men in other armed forces around the world?

                            Comment


                            • I don't understand why people have a problem with this, an officer is supposed to set the example.

                              Comment


                              • Officers

                                A consequence/cause / result of the high number of officers here means that some are either boxing over their weight or else overranked for their post.
                                Our Navy is headed up by a FOCNS(Brig gen) with some commodores/captains and commanders filling support/op roles. By comparison the coastal patrol section of the RN which includes the River class/minesweepers and uni boats (roughly same overall personel and tonnage is headed up by a commander.The same point probably applies to the Army here.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X