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  1. #226
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Trucker,I was referring to section 133,in any event there are already offences in existance in the criminal code dealing with assauly/theft etc.Sec 133 makes it an offence to be abuse etc somebody of superior rank and seems to exist to protect the institution wheras in the garda regs it appears to protect the individual concerned.
    Is abusing a superior officer not an offence in every army in the world? I'm also pretty sure that abuse of one soldier by another is an offence which can be dealt with accordingly, regardless of rank.
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

  2. #227
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Trucker,I was referring to section 133,in any event there are already offences in existance in the criminal code dealing with assauly/theft etc.Sec 133 makes it an offence to be abuse etc somebody of superior rank and seems to exist to protect the institution wheras in the garda regs it appears to protect the individual concerned.
    Ah OK, cheers
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  3. #228
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    Just looked at the piece on the irish army soldier that was involved in an incident in derry. Although he got a suspended sentence , can the army still punish him if they wanted to ?
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

  4. #229
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    Possibly,not for the offence itself but on a disrepute basis.

  5. #230
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    cheers danno
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by knocker View Post
    cheers danno
    Looking back at post and a google full details come up on Pte Timoney facebook etc but no details as to id of the victim,poss he is facing charges.Pte Timoneys address is given ,would have thought this is sensitive info all things considered.
    Anytime I was in Dt Court when pdfs were facing charges the dft was in civvies but always accompanied by an officer who would report outcome to MA,wonder if officer attending last week in uniform given the apparent sensation arising when officers wear uniforms in UK.I recall last year a NS officer wore uniform when giving evidence at the Dunlough Bay follow up trial in UK which collapsed.

  7. #232
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I couldnt handle staying on thread

    but this is quiet interesting





    A Surplus of ‘A Few Good Men’


    From left: Noah Devereaux for The New York Times; Columbia Pictures; Christopher Capozziello for The New York Times

    Donald Marcari, left, and Walter C. Bansley III, right, are among four former military lawyers who claim Lt. Daniel Kaffee, the character played by Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men," was a at least partly inspired by them.

    By WILLIAM GLABERSON

    In the movies, there have been quite a few handsome and noble defense lawyers. And one of the best known may be the military lawyer played by Tom Cruise in “A Few Good Men,” the 1992 courtroom drama about a hazing gone awry at the Guantánamo naval base in Cuba.









    Debbie Sorkin, second from left, the sister of Aaron Sorkin, who wrote "A Few Good Men," with David Ingelesias, center, and Donald Marcari, far right. Both men claim the film drew on their experiences as military lawyers.


    So it has been quite a distinction for a Connecticut lawyer named Walter C. Bansley III to claim — with some basis — that he “was the actual military lawyer played by Tom Cruise,” as he did on his Web site (until he was asked about it this week).

    Hollywood’s true-ish stories have a way of bringing out those claiming to be inspiration, especially when there are well-fitting uniforms involved. “A Few Good Men,” written by Aaron Sorkin, has fostered a particularly stubborn if little-noticed puzzle among a handful of lawyers over who inspired the main character, named Lt. Daniel Kaffee, who challenged Col. Nathan R. Jessep, played by Jack Nicholson, with his oft-quoted “I want the truth” demand.

    It turns out four former military lawyers around the country have said Mr. Cruise was playing a character based entirely or partly on them. Beside Mr. Bansley, three others say the character was a composite constructed from the work of those three. They can be far from humble about this.

    “My opinion is that the Tom Cruise character is largely based on me,” said one of the three, Chris Johnson, who practices in California.

    Now, after being asked about the lawyers in question, Mr. Sorkin has finally revealed the answer.

    But first, some background.

    Mr. Sorkin got the idea for the play and movie from his sister, a young military lawyer in the 1980s who represented a Marine in a court-martial at Guantánamo over a hazing incident, he has said in interviews.

    Each of the four men who believe Tom Cruise brought them to life on film played a role in that case. (The script calls the Cruise character “almost impossible not to like.”) Ten Marines faced assault charges, and each had a military lawyer.

    Several of the lawyers had good hair, including David C. Iglesias, a Navy lawyer at the time. He later became nationally known as the United States attorney in New Mexico who said he was fired for political reasons along with six other United States attorneys in 2006 by the administration of President George W. Bush.

    Seven of the 10 Marines originally charged did not go to trial, including Mr. Sorkin’s sister’s client. But Mr. Iglesias, Mr. Johnson and Donald Marcari, a Virginia lawyer, represented three Marines who claimed in trials that the hazing had been indirectly ordered by officers.

    “The Cruise character is a composite of the three of us,” Mr. Iglesias said in an interview. His version, simplified by various interviewers, has appeared several times before. A Washington Post article in 2007 said that the “strong-jawed” Mr. Iglesias was “said” to have inspired the “dreamy” Lieutenant Kaffee. Simplification played out elsewhere as well. Mr. Marcari declared on his Virginia-North Carolina law firm’s Web site that “his exploits as a young defense attorney with the U.S. Navy Judge Advocate General’s (JAG) Corps became the basis for the motion picture ‘A Few Good Men.’ ”

    “It’s been great for my career,” he said in an interview.

    The four men recently described how they became convinced that the Lieutenant Kaffee character was based at least in part on them. None said he had ever spoken with Mr. Sorkin. Mr. Johnson mentioned that he used to wear mismatched socks and noted that the movie hints Lieutenant Kaffee did, too. Mr. Marcari said he noticed that Lieutenant Kaffee played softball and he did, too, when he was in the military.

    In Connecticut, Mr. Bansley recalled that he had been a senior Marine lawyer and had reviewed the charges in a hearing in the real case. Later, he represented one of the officers whom the young Marines blamed for indirectly ordering the hazing.

    Mr. Bansley said that when the movie was being made he was called by studio people and reviewed scripts. He said he was told by a producer that the movie “was about me.”

    He noted that news organizations had described him as the inspiration for the Tom Cruise character. The New York Times, in an article in the Connecticut section in 1992, said flatly, “The actor Tom Cruise is playing Major Bansley in the film.”

    The conflicting accounts began to attract attention recently because Mr. Bansley has a role in a highly publicized Connecticut triple-murder trial beginning Monday. The case is the second death-penalty trial stemming from the home-invasion murders of a woman and her two daughters in Cheshire in 2007. Mr. Bansley is one of the defense lawyers for a burglar with a troubled past named Joshua Komisarjevsky.

    A few months ago, a Connecticut defense lawyer and blogger named Norman Pattis did an Internet search on “A Few Good Men.” He had heard for years, he said recently, that Mr. Bansley was the real Lieutenant Kaffee. “I saw there was another guy claiming he was Tom Cruise,” he said. “And then another. That was jaw-dropping to me.”

    He wrote a blog post: “Will the Real Tom Cruise Please Rise?” One thing led to another. Connecticut lawyers started to talk.

    Mr. Bansley was asked about the other lawyers’ claims in recent days. “If they want to say that,” he said, “they probably have as good a claim as I do.” His law office changed its Web site. It now says he “is reported to be the actual military lawyer portrayed by actor Tom Cruise.”

    Mr. Sorkin would not agree to an interview. His spokeswoman, Joy Fehily, did, however, relay his response in an e-mail. She said he had never before answered questions about who inspired the Tom Cruise character.

    His reply was blunt:

    “The character of Dan Kaffee in ‘A Few Good Men’ is entirely fictional and was not inspired by any particular individual.”
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  8. #233
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    Judgement to be given today at 2pm ay ct 16 4 courts in the AC Niall Donohoe appeal.

  9. #234
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    Just spotted new regs whereby quals for mil judge/dir mil pros have been tightened up and posts open to non DF officers.Also a circuit court judge now eligible to act as mil judge.

  10. #235
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
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    Always thought the term 'military justice' was a bit of an oxymoron. Used to be amused by a solicitor called Dorrian who used to attent the odd CM, always tied the military 'legal hot shots' up in knots.very funny to watch. :-)

  11. #236
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Judgement to be given today at 2pm ay ct 16 4 courts in the AC Niall Donohoe appeal

    Three months later.......

    What was the outcome?
    Just visiting

  12. #237
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    Was further adj to 19 Dec and gone off radar since,not aware of any outcome.

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  14. #238
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Just spotted new regs whereby quals for mil judge/dir mil pros have been tightened up and posts open to non DF officers.Also a circuit court judge now eligible to act as mil judge.

    In this situation, will these civilians coming in as military JAGs be commissioned as DF officers, I wonder ? In the same manner as doctors coming into the
    DF...
    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Judgement to be given today at 2pm ay ct 16 4 courts in the AC Niall Donohoe appeal.
    19 Dec 2012 ???? The wheels of justice and all that...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  15. #239
    Friend Saab's Avatar
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    I would have thought that judges would stay aloof.

    After all isn't the military court nnow part of the main stream courts?

  16. #240
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    And it should be pointed out that a Soldier accused of a crime/offence has only recourse to legal counsel when remanded for Court martial- you cannot have representation (except assisting person) at the preliminary investigation (orders) or at the taking of a summary of evidence, even though you have the right to cross examine witnessess against and for you and those answers will go to form the prosecution case against you.
    thankfully we differ there.

    we can get a lawyer involved at any level we want - however as Hedgie points out - he won't be able to overturn military law but he will ensure the military don't overstep the mark and remain within their boundaries, and will assist with any appeal - even at sub-unit level. so if it's low level misdemeanour's then you're wasting your money, but if you think it's something that could get out of hand then you get a lawyer in from the outset. regardless of rank / pay - we seem to get legal aid but i don't know how or why.

    also - all of our interviews and preliminary investigations are all conducted under PACE (Police And Criminal Evidence act) conditions - where a lawyer can be present at any interview, you can record your own interview and have an 'Assisting Officer' present, aswell as any other person the individual wants to have along for the ride.

    i've been in positions where i've had my lawyer and best mate and myself sat on one side of the table with my dictaphone in the middle, and the SIB, Green Slime and Accusing Officer all sat opposite us trying to conduct an interview.

    but the bottom line is - if the army want to get you - there are many ways to skin a cat and they'll get their pound of flesh somehow - you can't beat the system.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  18. #241
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    The delay could well be due to one side trying to settle the case.

    Chances are it will be settled out of court with the usual confidentialy clause. Then the rumor mill can get into full swing.
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  19. #242
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    The delay could well be due to one side trying to settle the case.
    Military courts don't prosecute civil cases.... therefore cases aren't settled!

  20. #243
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Before we start talking about settlements - lets talk about the Military Judge?
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  21. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Before we start talking about settlements - lets talk about the Military Judge?
    Story is that position now open to persons other than Df officers as pool of potentila applicants within Df is too small,ie there are only 2 persons with requisite quals and a wider pool is required.Any non DF appointees will be appointed to rank (col).
    Ct Ct judge may act as mil judge if the reg mil judge is ill etc or is conflicted.
    Seemingly somebody was appointed to post of mil judge but there was an intervention and doubts arose over quals and hence new law to widen pool.
    Should any non DFs be appointed most likely to come from office of DPP or CSS,this will tick a few boxes.

  22. #245
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Military courts don't prosecute civil cases.... therefore cases aren't settled!
    The case is currently listed in the CM Appeal Court. If the punishment is overturned or the HC finds some incorrect procedure was used or strikes down the case in anyway the D of D will have to take out the cheque book. The Comdt lost his carear and good name. What price is put on that by the civi courts? The CMAC is a civi court in that it has civi judges albeit HC judges. That is why they are trying to settle. The alternative is to risk an adverse finding that puts a spanner in the system.
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  23. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    The case is currently listed in the CM Appeal Court. If the punishment is overturned or the HC finds some incorrect procedure was used or strikes down the case in anyway the D of D will have to take out the cheque book. The Comdt lost his carear and good name. What price is put on that by the civi courts? The CMAC is a civi court in that it has civi judges albeit HC judges. That is why they are trying to settle. The alternative is to risk an adverse finding that puts a spanner in the system.
    Please await the outcome first before anticipating matters.

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  25. #247
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    The case is currently listed in the CM Appeal Court. If the punishment is overturned or the HC finds some incorrect procedure was used or strikes down the case in anyway the D of D will have to take out the cheque book. The Comdt lost his carear and good name. What price is put on that by the civi courts? The CMAC is a civi court in that it has civi judges albeit HC judges. That is why they are trying to settle. The alternative is to risk an adverse finding that puts a spanner in the system.
    There is a difference between a civi and a Civil court. If the defendent was to win an appeal they would have to go to the High Court suing the Minister.

    To settle in a CM would be like a plea bargain.

  26. #248
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There is a difference between a civi and a Civil court. If the defendent was to win an appeal they would have to go to the High Court suing the Minister.

    To settle in a CM would be like a plea bargain.
    Can you explain the difference between a civi court and Civil Court? I may not have expressed myself clearly enough but for the sake of the argument I am saying they are the same. It is my understanding that the CMAC is the HC exercising military jurisdiction and the judges are HC judges and are not members of the PDF.

    They are not trying to settle the CM. The CM has aready given its verdict and punishment, case closed. The Comdt is appealing the verdict and the punishment. The issue for the DoD/MA is do they defend the CM verdict and punishment at the CMAC or do they settle the appeal "on the steps".

    The DoD/MA have to decide is the verdict and punishment fireproof or is the CMAC going to go against them on some issue or other. And, if the CMAC goes against the DoD/MA on some issue or other, and its just an if, what are the consequences for this case and for future CsM.

    The stakes are high for both sides.
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  27. #249
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    Can you explain the difference between a civi court and Civil Court? I may not have expressed myself clearly enough but for the sake of the argument I am saying they are the same. It is my understanding that the CMAC is the HC exercising military jurisdiction and the judges are HC judges and are not members of the PDF.

    They are not trying to settle the CM. The CM has aready given its verdict and punishment, case closed. The Comdt is appealing the verdict and the punishment. The issue for the DoD/MA is do they defend the CM verdict and punishment at the CMAC or do they settle the appeal "on the steps".

    The DoD/MA have to decide is the verdict and punishment fireproof or is the CMAC going to go against them on some issue or other. And, if the CMAC goes against the DoD/MA on some issue or other, and its just an if, what are the consequences for this case and for future CsM.

    The stakes are high for both sides.
    Prisoner, are you trying to win the competition for the most acronyms in one posting ???
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  28. #250
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Prisoner, are you trying to win the competition for the most acronyms in one posting ???
    Now, there's a thought
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

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