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  1. #76
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    If he called him a big prick rather than a little prick would he have got a harder or easier senstence.

  2. #77
    CQMS Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    If he worked in a civvy job would this have been reported in the media?
    If at first you don't succeed, then call in an airstrike.

  3. #78
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    Sounds like they wanted an excuse to get rid of him. Can't see thatv sentence standing; interesting to see that he has a few moretrials to get through as well.
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

  4. #79
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    That's a very harsh sentence.

    I've heard worse being said between people without charges being brought against them. I'd imagine there was a lot more going on between the two Officers than just one little falling out, there must have been bad blood between the two from previous incidents.

  5. #80
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Me thinks the other officer should invest in 360 degree vision!

    Wonder what the mood is like in the Officers' Mess this morning?
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  6. #81
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    Hi all,
    Like all other DF cases that appear in court, there's a lot of background info that the public aren't getting. They're not seriously throwing the guy out for calling another guy a prick.If every guy who called another a prick, or worse, was thrown out of the DF, there'd be no-one left. He's being jettisoned because he's a pain in the neck. If he cops on and keeps his gob shut, he'll get to keep his pension and he can retire to write narky letters to newspapers.
    regards
    GttC

  7. #82
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    The poor performance report, justified or not, that triggered the exchange may be telling.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  8. #83
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    Wonder what the mood is like in the Officers' Mess this morning?
    Prickly, no doubt
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  9. #84
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Prickly, no doubt
    badum.tsssh.

    He's here all week folks.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  10. #85
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    ....People have long memories and past
    unreliability/difficulty/bloodymindedness/unrulyness will be held against you,
    unless you are percieved to have cleaned your sheet properly.
    regards
    GttC
    I was told of this exact scenario happening to an NCO on a Career Course
    The guy felt he was been binned in his tests because he had a run-in with
    one of the instructors on an overseas trip

    Having witnessed the standard of a couple of other individuals on the same
    course who passed first go, I would have believed him too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    If he worked in a civvy job would this have been reported in the media?
    Doubtful...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Hi all,
    Like all other DF cases that appear in court, there's a lot of background info that the public aren't getting. They're not seriously throwing the guy out for calling another guy a prick.If every guy who called another a prick, or worse, was thrown out of the DF, there'd be no-one left. He's being jettisoned because he's a pain in the neck. If he cops on and keeps his gob shut, he'll get to keep his pension and he can retire to write narky letters to newspapers.
    regards
    GttC
    There may be a lot of background information etc

    but the only thing the Court Martial can decide upon is that whats befoore it
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  12. #87
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Like all other DF cases that appear in court, there's a lot of background info that the public aren't getting.

    The back round has no bearing unless its entered in evidence and unless the trail is based on a series of events.

    Was he tried based on one remark or is this a culmination of events..?

    If so each event has to be dealt with in a seperate case. This guy maybe a waste of space but I get the feeling he has been set up, either the full agenda is not on the table, in which case the whole thing is wrong, or the old boy network has conived to be rid of the guy!.

    There won't be a civil judge in the country that will stand behind that punishment..if indeed the singular charge is the issue.


    Work related stress illness..I'm amazed it even got to court.

    Calling the CO a prick and getting your ticket.. no way.......! Something is badly wrong here. Worst case scenario loss of seniority ..couldn't even drop a rank if they wanted to.

    Precedent set.. I would foresee full reinstatement with damages.

    Firing squads and flogging are back on the agenda if this is upheld.

    Not a witness in sight and this guy get the flick........try that in any other work place..I don't think so...
    Just visiting

  13. #88
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Is being called a "Prick" really worthy of the punishment recieved though? In a civilian court, you'd have to call a member of AGS a lot of things before you were arrested for using Threatening and Insulting Language (s6 Public order I think) and even then while the possible penalties may appear severe, they were a Maximum, rather than an expectation.

    I seem to recall the Air Corpse have traditionally been fond of using the Court Martial to punish its officers for the more petty of offences.

    I remember back in the 80s a number of them got carpetted for resigning their commission to go work for an unnamed airline.

  14. #89
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    Didn't this guy get a letter from D. Early a while ago telling him to cop on and give

    up his ongoing complaining. He may have being regarded as someone who did not

    know when to give it up.?

  15. #90
    Closed Account ZULU's Avatar
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    Or maybe he was standing for something he believed in and believed the system/mentality of the established hierarchy was wrong or at the least needed to be brought to account.

    I'm not on either side. But as Murph has said calling a senior rank a prick and being dismissed for it is a bit OTT

  16. #91
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    47 years old, two young kids. Job down the toilet, the man is paying a heavy price.

  17. #92
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Punishments awardable in this instance were:
    1. Imprisonment for 2 years.
    2. Dismissal with ignominy from the Defence Forces.
    3. Dismissal from the Defence Forces.
    4. Reduction to any lower commissioned army rank.
    5. Forfeiture of seniority of rank.
    6. A fine not exceeding an amount equal to ten days’ pay.
    7. Severe reprimand.
    8. Reprimand.

    Options rather than mandatory.

    He may have being regarded as someone who did not

    know when to give it up.?
    Wasn't the issue at the Court Martial. He could only be tried on the accusation and not on opinions.

    The court president would have to be very sure that any appeal would fail or a powerful precedent would be set that his descisions could be overturned other wise he has an agenda that won't be questioned and this a big time warning shot that Court Martials are back in vogue.

    I.E. how to get rid of people on trumped up charges without having to buy them off.

    Back to the Rank thing. Happened a few years ago, officer was alledged to be insubordinate, lost seniority, end of career.Gone quietly within a few years...and the allegation him was far greater than telling his CO that he was a prick..was actually closer to mutiny but thats how it went.

    So wheres the precedent and whats the agenda?

    Why rock the boat so big time now over what is in effect a very trivial charge given the lower levels of punishment.?

    Does a private telling a corporal that he's a prick warrant dismissal or is it because the Lt Col could have him court martial that he did and that a reprimand would be a very minor punishment for a Court Martial force the president into pushing it to the higher grades of punishments.?

    Should he have pleaded guilty would the punishment have been any less severe?
    Just visiting

  18. #93
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Had a chat with a PDF CQ. He reckons that the the top brass are of the opinion that discipline standards have fallen and they are trying to correct the situation. He also reckons that if all comments were dealt with like that there would be very few left in the DF. Also, as they have the prision back they feel they should use it.

    Don't know if that's the case.
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  19. #94
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    This case won't go away any time soon. There are seven other court appearances due, relating to this issue. As for general discipline, the DF is far more likely to throw someone out these days, than it ever was.
    regards
    GttC

  20. #95
    Number 6 The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Not trying to nitpick but if he has been discharged can they bring further charges? That is on the assumption that he is now a civilian. Or has the discharge been delayed?

    I reckon this one could have a bit to run.
    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
    Who is number 1?

  21. #96
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    If they're going to jail him I'd imagine they'd only let him go at the end of the sentance, in order to be able to keep him in a military prison. Besides, he still has the right to appeal the verdict, so they can do nothing yet.

  22. #97
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prisoner View Post
    Had a chat with a PDF CQ. He reckons that the the top brass are of the opinion that discipline standards have fallen and they are trying to correct the situation. He also reckons that if all comments were dealt with like that there would be very few left in the DF. Also, as they have the prision back they feel they should use it.

    Don't know if that's the case.
    An nco friend reckons discipline has dropped alarmingly esp amongst younger soldiers. He has trained recruits and just believes that young people are more willing to push things once out of training.

    Absense and being under the influence are major issues as he see's it.
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  23. #98
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I heard that some units maintain a "kitty" from which fines can be paid, such is the frequency of individuals being deducted days pay etc for various offences.

    No shows for duty being the most common.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    If they're going to jail him I'd imagine they'd only let him go at the end of the sentance, in order to be able to keep him in a military prison. Besides, he still has the right to appeal the verdict, so they can do nothing yet.
    When someone gets sent to the Digger and part of their punishment involves being discharged, they won't be discharged until they finish their sentence.

  25. #100
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    No shows for duty being the most common.
    Quote Originally Posted by ollie View Post
    Absense and being under the influence are major issues as he see's it.

    Sounds like the RDF to me
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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