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  1. #276
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    I would,nt say its great as on any tough course its getting damaged.
    Pouches tearing off, buckles breaking, zips giving up,
    Your right about Heli ops and perhaps Apc drills but when you D-bus out of them you are into most likely light inf again.
    everyone should of kept there old cefo or chest rigs.
    I,m glad my unit did we don't use the BV at all unless we are the other side of the camp

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Keep the large NBC pouch as the new one is too small and if kept in the pouch the respirator will get damaged (or hang it up)
    Are we being issued Ressies and Noddy suits too??

  3. #278
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Talking to guys that are involved in very arduous DF courses the battlevest is great for APC/helo ops but not light infantry work.

    Crawling means the mags get dirty and pouches (especially mag pouches) get damaged and the buckles break too easily.

    The weight all being on the front means more lower back and quad injuries.

    Advise was:
    Keep some of the PLCE buckles were you can
    Keep the large NBC pouch as the new one is too small and if kept in the pouch the respirator will get damaged (or hang it up)
    Yup... Battle Vests are most suitable for vehicle ops, as ye all know, as it removes all the stuff from the rear, making for a more comfy trip
    TBH, don't know how the lads cope with the Inf stuff when crawling while wearing them, as now, all the stuff is to the front...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  4. #279
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    The drinking drill with the camelbak(CBRN or normal) is very simple and has been sent to the DF CBRN working group for approval.We still teach the emergency drinking drill but as not all units are still issued waterbottles it is hit and miss as to what is being taught in the units.On the Instructor course I taught both to the students so they can teach both at unit level.
    The BV's are a great bit of kit let down by two things.Lack of modularity and durability.With the old PLCE if you damaged a pouch you removed it and replaced just the pouch.If you damage a BV you replace the whole vest.Biggest problem areas are the thinness of the pouch lids(easily ripped).Compare against the lined pouch lids of PLCE.No comparison.Also the main front zips break too easily.
    Why we got BV's with zips is a mind boggler.Three fastex buckles can be easily replaced if damaged but a zip can't.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  5. #280
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The drinking drill with the camelbak(CBRN or normal) is very simple and has been sent to the DF CBRN working group for approval.We still teach the emergency drinking drill but as not all units are still issued waterbottles it is hit and miss as to what is being taught in the units.On the Instructor course I taught both to the students so they can teach both at unit level.
    The BV's are a great bit of kit let down by two things.Lack of modularity and durability.With the old PLCE if you damaged a pouch you removed it and replaced just the pouch.If you damage a BV you replace the whole vest.Biggest problem areas are the thinness of the pouch lids(easily ripped).Compare against the lined pouch lids of PLCE.No comparison.Also the main front zips break too easily.
    Why we got BV's with zips is a mind boggler.Three fastex buckles can be easily replaced if damaged but a zip can't.
    Who the hell signed off on a design like that ??? Thought the pouches on the issue BV were Molle ?
    i.e; detachable from the vest ?
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  6. #281
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Who the hell signed off on a design like that ??? Thought the pouches on the issue BV were Molle ?
    i.e; detachable from the vest ?
    The M203 and I think admin pouch etc are detachable. The 4 x ammo and 2 x utility pouches are fixed

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  8. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    Are we being issued Ressies and Noddy suits too??
    no idea on the first and you wont on the second.

  9. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The M203 and I think admin pouch etc are detachable. The 4 x ammo and 2 x utility pouches are fixed
    As I said, daft design...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  10. #284
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quelle suprise PLCE is back after it was supposidly collected and got rid of, no sign of IPLCS.

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  12. #285
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    IPLCE packing list from lets say a good source that sets standards for the DF.

    Smock
    Bottom left pocket - leather gloves (not fingerless), bush hat, wooly hat
    Left arm pocket - steri gel
    Bottom right pocket - penknife (secured to pocket), insulating tape, high carb food
    Chest right pocket - space blanket
    Right arm pocket - FFD

    Battle Vest
    Left Ammo - magazines, 7.62 belt/smoke
    Left Utility - Model kit, mozzie net, insect spray, rifle cleaning kit, para cord
    Left chest zip - maps, compass, air photos
    M203 pouch (upper left) - M203 rounds (pouch only fitted if ammo issued)
    HE pouch (middle left) - grenades (pouch only fitted if ammo issued)
    Right Ammo - magazines
    Right Utility - hexi, metal mug, spoon, small cloth, lighter, rations
    Admin pouch - camo stick, whistle, torch/head light
    Right chest zip - Tacaid, notebook, chinagraph pencils, w/p markets
    Back - Platypus, 2 sandbags
    Respirator pouch (right leg) - respirator, CBRN drinking attachment
    Dump pouch (left leg) - empty mags & belts
    Optional - pace counter

    Patrol Pack
    Top flap - Individual first aid kit, hearing protection, white & red ribbons (to mark pack as being ammo / section med kit), spare ammunition
    Main compartment (2 separate dry bags) - items of ordnance, wet gear, fleece (or similar), spare socks, platypus (if not in battle vest), 24 hrs rations

    Main Pack
    Outside on top - entrenching tool
    Top flap - 2 x sandbag, 6 x bungees, 6 x tent pegs
    Side pouches (in separate dry bags) - dry flow top & bottoms, norge shirt, DPM trousers, socks, hand towel, wash gear (soap, razor, toothbrush & paste, vaseline, goretex socks, foot powder
    Main compartment (in dry bag) - sleeping bag (in bivi bag), spare rations, water, laundry bag/waterproof bag, knee & elbow pads (if required/not worn)
    Outside at bottom - basha (rolled in ground mat to protect it), secured by 2 x bungees

    Helmet (with elastic strap)
    Goggles (in protective cover) secured to helmet

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  14. #286
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Most of that list is as per the ARW selection course packing list with a smattering of NCOTW thrown in.Most of it is sound bar one or two things.
    Metal mug and emergency rations should be kept in the daysack.You wont be brewing up during an assault.Keep the BV as light as you can.Also over time the rim of the metal mug will wear through the material of the utility pouch as it was never designed or sized to fir one properly.Trust me I have seen many new lads fresh out of the BTC's who swear by that packing list with worn through utility pouches on the BV due to this practice.
    The only thing you should have in the main compartment of the Bergen is the patrol pack.Fold the large liner down and store it underneath in case you need it for a river crossing.The divider between the lower compartment of the Bergen and top should be closed and your sleeping system(complete) goes in the bottom compartment.Now you can access your sleeping system at night without having to take everything out of the Bergen first!Having the patrol pack inside the Bergen is good admin as you can access it fast in case of a shoot and scoot scenario.Also it is more stable and secure when tabbing then putting it under the lid.
    Droplegs are really only used in CBRN scenarios if we go to Cat1 and above or during FIBUA.The dump pouch as issued with the leg strap is a nause during greenfield Ops.The leg strap catches on everything when crawling etc.Remove it and tighten the height adjuster straps up all the way so the dump pouch is just below the level of the belt but flaps loose.
    Oh and they are Camelbaks or "Hydration systems".Platypus's are for Civi's
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  15. #287
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I can never think of what to call them

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  17. #288
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    For those still on PLCE ( i.e. us, and many others ) there are several excellent lists earlier up the thread. Search Apod's and other's posts.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  19. #289
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    FFD aside, the DF recommend that you wouldn't keep an IFAK on your person or in your vest? It's just left in the daysack?

  20. #290
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Not a IFAK as it should be IE Trauma kit.We are not issued those.Yet.
    More personal boo boo kit.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  22. #291
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    Does that mean to say that there's no expectation to carry a Trauma IFAK as it's not issued? Or would most guys buy and carry their own?

  23. #292
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    FFD aside, the DF recommend that you wouldn't keep an IFAK on your person or in your vest? It's just left in the daysack?
    Do you know I had the exact same thought
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  24. #293
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    Does that mean to say that there's no expectation to carry a Trauma IFAK as it's not issued? Or would most guys buy and carry their own?
    Precisely.Outside of the wing I don't know of many who take it seriously.Hopefully starting to change with the new MFR and TCCC course but until the DF starts issuing them most lads don't care.Same with the CIED training.We have all the drills and the gucci kit,but yet don't issue ballistic glasses(yes I know we have goggles.Try wearing them for hours on end dismounted patrolling)or have it as SOP that they are worn in IED threat areas.DoD penny pinching as usual.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  25. #294
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    It's funny you mention that, last year I wore Sawfly ballistic glasses on exercise and a PDF lad was slagging me about my "Gucci Glasses". My rationale for wearing them wasn't exactly CIED orientated, but being self employed and knowing that the DF would drop me like a hot sack of sh1t if I was injured, I decided that my health is my wealth, and an eye injury on ex would have stopped me working/earning. I wear them whenever I'm shooting now.

  26. #295
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I always think this is one of the best threads on IMO- Its what IMO should be about. Well done lads.

    What should go into a personal combat first aid kit- ?
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  28. #296
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    It's funny you mention that, last year I wore Sawfly ballistic glasses on exercise and a PDF lad was slagging me about my "Gucci Glasses". My rationale for wearing them wasn't exactly CIED orientated, but being self employed and knowing that the DF would drop me like a hot sack of sh1t if I was injured, I decided that my health is my wealth, and an eye injury on ex would have stopped me working/earning. I wear them whenever I'm shooting now.
    I dont have any problem with anybody wearing EYEPRO when it is relevant and possibly necessary.Going through a forest a night.Check.Doing FIBUA.Check.Firing pistols.Check.
    Firing a rifle or GPMG 200 metres away from the target with slim to no chance of splashback??I dunno.
    Overseas where there is ANY threat of IED's??It should be mandatory.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  30. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    I dont have any problem with anybody wearing EYEPRO when it is relevant and possibly necessary.Going through a forest a night.Check.Doing FIBUA.Check.Firing pistols.Check.
    Firing a rifle or GPMG 200 metres away from the target with slim to no chance of splashback??I dunno.
    Overseas where there is ANY threat of IED's??It should be mandatory.
    I just see it as PPE when carrying a rifle, same as ear defence. Even at 200m away, I still can't account for my oppos muzzle discipline, or spent cartridges, or any other variables that might damage my eyes, which is why I'd prefer to leave them on if I'm on the ground. I wear them on the range to simulate the conditions I'll be firing on the ground with.

    Anyway, the RDF Fighting season will soon be upon us, so time to dust off the battle box....

    Attached Images Attached Images

  31. #298
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    where did you manage to locate the helmet ... What type is it? mich ach?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  32. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    where did you manage to locate the helmet ... What type is it? mich ach?
    Got it off ebay from the States, it's a proper Rabintex 303 AU which I think is similar or the same as the PDF issue lid.

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  34. #300
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    With a cover, few will notice the difference.

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