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  1. #26
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    They both do CBRN resistance to contaminating the water in the pouch up to a certain length of time. I think the camelbak specs are available on their site but I don't think source is openly available. This though is probally easily found out with an email, but I'm too lazy to do it and I don't need to know
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  2. #27
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Good for you mate.Actually Camelbak are fairly good.I guess thats why they are the most widely issued Hydration bladder worldwide.
    Apparently the issue hydration system for the USMC is from Source.

    These are two of USMC versions on issue:
    http://www.source-military.com/p-milspec-usmcv23l.html

    http://www.source-military.com/p-mil...actical3l.html

    The Camelbaks currently in use by the US Army are apparently being replaced by Source packs.

    And i'm not too sure but i think the British Army are replacing their Camelbaks with Source packs as well.
    Last edited by spaceghetti; 26th June 2010 at 17:24.

  3. #28
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    There are 2 flaws that I have found using the Source, the tube is a little too short and it could be insulated better like the carrier for the pouch is, but saying this, the issue one has a long insulated tube but the pouch isn't insulated at all, not pleasant when its hot out. These problems could easily be fixed when ordering off them or just buying a replacement tube.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  4. #29
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    The Camelbak tube is also easier to operate singlehanded .The source one isnt.Also the source tube doesnt take a CBRN adaptor.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  5. #30
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The Camelbak tube is also easier to operate singlehanded .The source one isnt.Also the source tube doesnt take a CBRN adaptor.

    They are both just as easy to use single handed and the source one has a 25% higher flow rate too. On the CBRN front they do sell tubes to fit them, you just have to state it when ordering.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  6. #31
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The Camelbak tube is also easier to operate singlehanded .The source one isnt.Also the source tube doesnt take a CBRN adaptor.
    Bite valve's leak easier. Put enough pressure on the bladder and water will start to leak out. That goes with all bite valves, not just camelbak. Thats why camelbak sell hydrolink valve's which have a little switch on them to help prevent leaking.

    Source bladders solve this problem with their built in shut off switch. You would leave the switch off when you need the water and only put it back on when your not going to use it for extended periods.

    The Storm valve is a push-pull valve. With a switch to shut off the flow if needed.

    The Helix is a light bite valve with a built in shut off as well as a switch for extra security.

    Source valves are also at a 90degree angle so they can fit into your mouth easier. And completely circular so that you don't have to bite it at a certain angle like you do with camelbak valves which are oval shaped.

    All source valves also have a built in cover that you can but over the valve itself. Preventing dirt from getting all over the surface. There's no point having the inside clean or even having a built in filter if there's going to be a load of dirt over the valve.

    Basically the stock source valve is like an improved Camelbak Bigbite, hydrolink and cover rolled into one. Also note that the Camelbak hydrolink on its own is very big compared to the source valve.

    What should be noted as well is the fact that water will remain clean for months inside the source bladder as well as not having a rubbery taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Also the source tube doesnt take a CBRN adaptor.
    If it didn't then it wouldn't be the issue hydration system for the US military.
    Last edited by spaceghetti; 27th June 2010 at 09:01.

  7. #32
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    You stated before USMC.The US Army uses camelbak IIRC.
    Actually i said:

    The Camelbaks currently in use by the US Army are apparently being replaced by Source packs.
    They haven't been fully issued yet as far as i'm aware.

    Other users include the Swedes, Italy, Israel, France, and the UK apparently.

    http://www.armedforces-int.com/suppl...d-systems.html

    http://www.cbrneworld.com/capability...gabond-systems

    The second link has a list of some of the masks that the SOURCE bladders are compatible with.

  8. #33
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Chaps anyone care to post pics / guide to packing out IPLCS. With where pouches are ideally positioned? I've a scan through the pics on this but the one for ARW selection does not have a pic of BV with all pouches on it. eg. admin and 203 pouches.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  9. #34
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    When setting up an IPLCS BV your move the admin pouch to the lower left PALS strips.The H.E Grenade pouch goes lower right.M203 goes top left(if worn).Top right should only have your nametag and rank slide loop above that in order to keep your shoulder free for rifle butt placement.
    I posted on this already in the "Good kit/helpfull hints forum".
    Why do you ask? Areb the RDF issued the IPLCS now?
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  10. #35
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    No, the song remains the same as Zeppelin sang. IPLCS is not on issue to RDF.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  11. #36
    Private 3* Celtic-Warrior's Avatar
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    I am open to correction but I believe students on this years STD NCO course are being requested to draw IPLCS from their parent unit stores as this is on the syllabus ?? Someone on the course could confirm this but iv heard the students were required to bring Patrolpack/daysack as opposed to rocket pouchs so the IPLCS was being temporarily issued for the course!
    Train Hard Fight Easy!!!!

  12. #37
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    When i saw the lads on the standards course in the Curragh earlier in the year they were packing plce gear.

  13. #38
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic-Warrior View Post
    I am open to correction but I believe students on this years STD NCO course are being requested to draw IPLCS from their parent unit stores as this is on the syllabus ?? Someone on the course could confirm this but iv heard the students were required to bring Patrolpack/daysack as opposed to rocket pouchs so the IPLCS was being temporarily issued for the course!
    Last years Std Offrs Cse had the same - IPLCS was supposed to be issued for the Course.

    Never happened and RDFTA didn't enforce it

    Only about 1 or 2 students got it - and that was an Officers Course.
    Last edited by Docman; 5th June 2012 at 01:31.

  14. #39
    Private 3* Celtic-Warrior's Avatar
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    So some have it some dont! Sounds like some Cadre have dropped the ball there!
    Train Hard Fight Easy!!!!

  15. #40
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic-Warrior View Post
    So some have it some dont! Sounds like some Cadre have dropped the ball there!
    That's a shock.....

  16. #41
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The vast majority don't. How many we're purchased again? Around the 8 thousand mark wasn't it?

  17. #42
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docman View Post
    Last years Std Offrs Cse had the same - IPLCS was supposed to be issued for the Course.

    Never happened and RDFTA didn't enforce it

    Only about 1 or 2 students got it - and that was an Officers Course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic-Warrior View Post
    I am open to correction but I believe students on this years STD NCO course are being requested to draw IPLCS from their parent unit stores as this is on the syllabus ?? Someone on the course could confirm this but iv heard the students were required to bring Patrolpack/daysack as opposed to rocket pouchs so the IPLCS was being temporarily issued for the course!
    News to me, can RDF draw IPLCS? Any RDF man I know who's managed to get their hands on the BV has borrowed it as a favour. Ah yes this old chestnut being required to bring a patrol pack but having none on issue. I can't get a pair of tac boots issue for a 3 day ex I can only imagine the reaction of asking cadre to issue us BVs.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffman View Post
    News to me, can RDF draw IPLCS? Any RDF man I know who's managed to get their hands on the BV has borrowed it as a favour. Ah yes this old chestnut being required to bring a patrol pack but having none on issue. I can't get a pair of tac boots issue for a 3 day ex I can only imagine the reaction of asking cadre to issue us BVs.
    And thats one of the reasons the RDF is ****ED.. all the kit in the world there but nobody willing to go get it/give it out.

  20. #44
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Ive been trying to get tac boots issued for the last two years... despite being on 2 3 week courses during that time (im infantry) I have not been able to get them issued... even resulted in a V senior officer stroking them off my clothing form. I will therefore be turning up for the next 2 weeks of my current course wearing barrack boots or possibly 24Bs at THIS stage.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  21. #45
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    You are only entitled to the operational boots etc if the course includes a 72 hour ex.

    It is well known in the PDF that up until recently daysacks were not on issue and had to purchased.

  22. #46
    Private 3* Celtic-Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    You are only entitled to the operational boots etc if the course includes a 72 hour ex.

    It is well known in the PDF that up until recently daysacks were not on issue and had to purchased.
    Yes but in the joining instructions for courses it may have recommended a patrol pack but it was not mandatory! From what I hear the patrol pack is mandatory on the RDF STD NCO course!
    Train Hard Fight Easy!!!!

  23. #47
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    You are only entitled to the operational boots etc if the course includes a 72 hour ex.

    It is well known in the PDF that up until recently daysacks were not on issue and had to purchased.
    Indeed there is a lot of stuff that has been private purchase and will continue to be so. But when you have a cse. requirement for an item of kit that is not on the scale of issue thats unfair on lads who can't afford to be shelling out reddies on somethign that is not being made available to them. PDF lads can also justify spending money on such kit as it is vital part of what they need for work. I shell out for suits, ties and smart shoes in work as they are part of what is required for the job that earns me my money and I've no problem doing so. Some people aren't in the position to justify spending big amounts on patrol packs when what they have been issued is rocket pouches. In saying that I bought most of my stuff privately, as I was in a position to do so and there are load of RDF lads who have the gucci-est of gucci in all things tactical (see recent abuse / posts in relevant threads).

    The boots issue is just annoying as its that fine line. Eg. a 71hr exs. (FUUUUUUUUUUUU) so as that they don't have to issue tac boots. I can understand this a lot of the time as I'm sure there will be shortages particularly when they have to make sure there is enough kit for the new intake as well as the boys going over seas. Who obviously need it more than we do.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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  25. #48
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    No one says grand new a cheap good daysack can be picked up on eBay. The duration of exercises can be found on syllabai. I've only ever seen 24/36/72 hours.

  26. #49
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    Just to go back on topic for a bit...

    I have a thing made up on "what to carry and where to carry it" which I made up for my POTs cse a few years ago, its based on having a smock & PLCE but sure it would give an an idication on where to put things on a BV if anyone wants it just send me a PM and I'll dig it out and send it to ya

  27. #50
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    There was a centrespread in the Connect only last september/october from the NCOTW outlining the packing ofd the IPLCS as per their SOP for the Standard Course.

    PS: IPLCS load carriage items are serial numbered items that are only supposed to be issued out on a soldiers AF721.They are not usually "loaned out".
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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