Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EPV for naval service

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • As opposed to civilian style ones? He hasn't a clue, he is way out of his depth. I'm sure his briefing paper said type, but he decided style was the same word. Probably pronounced Shtyle.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

    Comment


    • Remember the Department and/or his private staff write does answers .... you never know

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Remember the Department and/or his private staff write does answers .... you never know
        When there are Notice Questions in Defence answers are constructed from trawled comments obtained from both uniformed Service and Public Service sources. At least there are signs of life with a definite catalyst , the decommissioning of LE Eithne. In the meantime manpower matters need to be resolved.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          When there are Notice Questions in Defence answers are constructed from trawled comments obtained from both uniformed Service and Public Service sources. At least there are signs of life with a definite catalyst , the decommissioning of LE Eithne. In the meantime manpower matters need to be resolved.
          I for one will miss P31. I was at her launch on that dark winter evening, and got to know her internal layout so well over time that one of her previous XO's ended up following me, as he took me on a tour of the vessel.
          I fear she did not see her full potential, I hope this will not be repeated in whatever replaces her, furthermore I hope she is replaced by 2 ships of type, (as was originally th eplan, even with P31) not one.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • At least there are signs of life with a definite catalyst , the decommissioning of LE Eithne
            i would have added, the 'eventual' decommissioning of LE Eithne as to decommission a unit prior to having its replacement on the blocks would be fallacy.

            Eithne was always iconic to me, but her faults and shortcomings were every evident from very early on and while some were corrected during her life , some were never addressed. If anything she was plagued by policy failures rather than any thing else.

            The restriction in availability of her flight deck to helos above the size of the Dauphin was probably that which shortened her aviation related career most

            I agree that we do need two vessels to replace her if only to offer continuity through replication, although I'm unsure of what will replace her, especially at 200 million, its not going to offer a huge leap forward from where the P60 class are.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post

              I agree that we do need two vessels to replace her if only to offer continuity through replication, although I'm unsure of what will replace her, especially at 200 million, its not going to offer a huge leap forward from where the P60 class are.
              I think we'd all love to see 2 hulls, but realistically it's not going to happen either from a price tag point or the cost of expanding the NS to the point of being a 10 ship navy. As for the 200 million, I suppose again in part that would depend on what we end up actually picking as the "EPV", and how willing we are to look at other options. I mean didn't the Dutch for example get the the hulls of some ships built in cheaper Eastern European yards and then did the high tech/high value work at home to keep down the costs? And of course if there was a willingness to go Asian, got to imagine that South Korea could give a good ship for 200 million Euros.

              Comment


              • Idle curiosity...

                What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?

                Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?

                Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                  Idle curiosity...

                  What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?

                  Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?

                  Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?
                  There is a professional recommendation that the new RN OPV's be upgraded to a frigate /corvette lite configuration at a cost of £120m for five ships. I was suggesting we should upgrade at least two of ours as leaders at about E 25m per ship. and continue with the MRV programme.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    There is a professional recommendation that the new RN OPV's be upgraded to a frigate /corvette lite configuration at a cost of £120m for five ships. I was suggesting we should upgrade at least two of ours as leaders at about E 25m per ship. and continue with the MRV programme.
                    And what would you get for €25m per ship?

                    I can well imagine that you could put a decent radar, FCS, CIWS, guided munitions for the main gun, and something like Sea Ceptor on a P60 (though I doubt you could do it for €25m), but apart from making it a lot spikier, what more could it do?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                      And what would you get for €25m per ship?

                      I can well imagine that you could put a decent radar, FCS, CIWS, guided munitions for the main gun, and something like Sea Ceptor on a P60 (though I doubt you could do it for €25m), but apart from making it a lot spikier, what more could it do?
                      The shopping list includes a rotary UAV, increased Sigint and Elint capability, Anti-sub towed array OR Hull mounted sonar, 2 x 25/30mm auto cannon, 20mm CIWS to be fitted to suit Ops requirement from stock of at least two. Terma Scanter 4100 2d radar.Sea Gnat Soft Kill anti- missile decoy system. An RN type Combat Management System-1. Our biggest draw back is the lack of a flight deck for a longer range copter UAV. It was priced for 5 ships at £110 sterling about 50m Euro for two +/-

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                        Idle curiosity...

                        What if, instead of building another ship - who's function and form no one can agree on - the €200m were spent on upgrades for the P60 class?

                        Obviously it's too late to do anything about a flight deck, but what upgrades could be done to the existing fleet?

                        Is the P60 a platform that could be upgraded to great effect with what is a relatively little sum, or is a platform that is limited as much by its design as by its fitting out budget?
                        Because there is no room on the p60 class for such modifications. Although it is excellent to get four new opv hulls, be very clear that they bring very little increase in capability compared to the p50 class.... no ASR, no Ops Room, no flight deck, DP that is not sufficient (DP0 fitted instead of DP1 as a cost saving measure....) no MBES..... the list goes on. Nice engines and PTIs.........
                        We would have been better served to get 3 hulls with such capability rather than 4 without......

                        Comment


                        • There is scope for some modifications to the P60s.

                          They were constructed with this in mind.

                          The mast is one example, can be upgraded fairly easily to take Air Search Radar.

                          Bridge and Comms systems are software based so can be upgraded to take any software based upgrades.

                          Afterdeck was lengthened for the use of UAVs, lauching and recovery systems for these are usually mobile.

                          There is scope there to improve them but obviously they will never be up-gradable beyond OPV/corvette status.

                          The big word here is money!!

                          Comment


                          • We can't let ourselves be limited by such cop outs. In reality there are ships half the size with twice the sensor and weapons capability with simple scabbed on non through deck fit outs. There is plenty of physical scope in the P60 class. The money and political will are the lacking components.

                            Comment


                            • An upgrade of the P60 would be good but one area of concern is space, especially on the bridge as there is no provision for a Ops Room in the design.
                              Click image for larger version

Name:	P60_Bridge.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	432.2 KB
ID:	698230
                              Looking at the size it should be possible to re-model the bridge along "modern" lines and be able to fit up to 6 MFC's to handle the sensor and weapon systems of a possible upgrade. This is not a small mod and together with sensor and other system upgrades would take 6 months at least to perform. Key would be the installation of a CMS, either Saab's 9LV or Thales Tacticos in there OPV/corvette versions. This is also the single high cost item the beam counters are least likely to understand, as it is about the fusion of the sensor data and weapons control.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                An upgrade of the P60 would be good but one area of concern is space, especially on the bridge as there is no provision for a Ops Room in the design.
                                [ATTACH]8601[/ATTACH]
                                Looking at the size it should be possible to re-model the bridge along "modern" lines and be able to fit up to 6 MFC's to handle the sensor and weapon systems of a possible upgrade. This is not a small mod and together with sensor and other system upgrades would take 6 months at least to perform. Key would be the installation of a CMS, either Saab's 9LV or Thales Tacticos in there OPV/corvette versions. This is also the single high cost item the beam counters are least likely to understand, as it is about the fusion of the sensor data and weapons control.
                                All those things should be done to at least two P60's, as Leaders, AND conform as close as possible to SOLAS V. Regulation 22 for ships over 55m as regards visibility from the Bridge, for watchkeepers and Conning positions including Helm.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X