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  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    And how many of them went on to serve in other navies (if you are going to use P21/P22 as indicators)? The County class served on average 30 plus years of combined RN/other nation service, the 21's still have 5 out of 8 in service, the Leanders saw long and varied service. You seem to be ignoring that UK budget issues/doctrine changes that drove many of those decisions, along with designs that were meant for areas that the RN no longer operated in, or hulls that were compromised by dated designs (the Light Carriers, or the Eagle class)

    The French still have 30 year old ships in service, I think the USN plans for the Burkes to last 30 plus years as are the Ticonderoga class, the USCG and others have the Hamilton class still in service what 40+ years?
    Except all those vessels have upgrades undertaken on them that take multiple months and in some cases years

  2. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Except all those vessels have upgrades undertaken on them that take multiple months and in some cases years
    Except what, DeV? Every military vessel will undergo periodic refits, upgrades etc during their lifetime.

  3. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    Except what, DeV? Every military vessel will undergo periodic refits, upgrades etc during their lifetime.
    NS vessels aren't but into long term refits lasting months and years

  4. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    NS vessels aren't but into long term refits lasting months and years
    Honest question in terms of the RN OPV's or the USCG how much is that the same? I mean I get why high end warships need such refits to meet new risks/new weapons. But of OPV class types how much deep refits do they get? Either way I don't think my point that many navies have hulls operating in the 30 and 30 plus level now and likely to go onwards (I mean given US defence procurement unless something happens for their Cruisers soon, then they could hit 40 plus years without a replacement)

    Given the equipment fit out of the NS hulls, just what long term refits would they need? What high end SAM, ASM, ASW systems need replacing/upgrading as line warships?
    Last edited by Sparky42; 3rd September 2017 at 21:58.

  5. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Honest question in terms of the RN OPV's or the USCG how much is that the same? I mean I get why high end warships need such refits to meet new risks/new weapons. But of OPV class types how much deep refits do they get? Either way I don't think my point that many navies have hulls operating in the 30 and 30 plus level now and likely to go onwards (I mean given US defence procurement unless something happens for their Cruisers soon, then they could hit 40 plus years without a replacement)

    Given the equipment fit out of the NS hulls, just what long term refits would they need? What high end SAM, ASM, ASW systems need replacing/upgrading as line warships?
    Not an OPV but
    http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and...rns-from-refit

  6. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Again I don't think that's a fair comparison, I mean you are talking about a Mine hunter who by definition needs upgrades to it's main systems and at the same time had the diesels replaced, also given the RN's manpower issues was that the minimum refit, or stretched? I mean one of the Hunt crews is moving to an OPV hull while their ship undergoes the same refit.

  7. #1657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Honest question in terms of the RN OPV's or the USCG how much is that the same? I mean I get why high end warships need such refits to meet new risks/new weapons. But of OPV class types how much deep refits do they get? Either way I don't think my point that many navies have hulls operating in the 30 and 30 plus level now and likely to go onwards (I mean given US defence procurement unless something happens for their Cruisers soon, then they could hit 40 plus years without a replacement)

    Given the equipment fit out of the NS hulls, just what long term refits would they need? What high end SAM, ASM, ASW systems need replacing/upgrading as line warships?
    If you were to have been aboard P21 in 1980, and stepped aboard her again in 2010, you would not think you were aboard the same ship. Engines and major machinery may have been the same, but just like grandfathes axe. 3 new heads and 4 new handles. Fittings and furnishings, sensors and their user interfaces, even the wiring aboard ship was replaced. Everything apart from the steel hull was removed, and renewed on numerous occasions. Even at that, I was present when P31 was grit blasted in 2006, removing 30 years of paint from her upperworks, and reducing her displacement in the process.
    The difference is the Irish temo of operations does not permit a ship to be out of service for years at a time. Other nations warships go into refit for extended periods, where major systems are completely mothballed while other systems are rebuilt or replaced. An interesting example is the older US Perry class FFG, whose Standard main armament became obsolete towards the end of its service. Some ships in Australian service were fitted with a VLS in place of the missile launcher, but the US decided to fit a 25mm cannon at the location instead. This required fitting a serious amount of ballast to compensate for the absence of a missile magazine. This has become relevant lately as the USN is considering reactivating decomissioned FFGs to make up the numbers of Trump's 355 ship Navy.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  9. #1658
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    On a lighter note, I recently saw the USS Constitution. Commissioned in 1797 and still technically in service

  10. #1659
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    Yes indeed, and HMS Victory was 40 years old at the Battle Of Trafalgar. I am also aware that all of our ships had half- life refits at the 10/12 year anniversary from build. Front edge items such as radar, Comms, were maintained close to the latest generations and International requirements such as ARPA and ECDIS are always met.

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    If we had a logistics ship - or ever get one - it should have electric propulsion. Why? She could act as power plant for areas that have lost power due to a catastrophe. Liek Domenica for instance. Ireland could send supplies, aid teams and onboard hospital on a ship that could at least power some local services.

  12. #1661
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    So just like the latest vessels then?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  14. #1662
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    Hospital, supplies? in a 2.25 Gg hull? Wasn't aware they had electric propulsion
    Last edited by Graylion; 3rd October 2017 at 16:06.

  15. #1663
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    Propulsion

    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Hospital, supplies? in a 2.25 Gg hull? Wasn't aware they had electric propulsion
    Ships with shaft generators run under a Power Take Off principle, can have that arrangement reversed to a Power Take In configuration to drive both shafts with electrical power fed back through a SWX Board. The Shaft Generators become electrical motors. The speed would be less but fine for getting home.

  16. #1664
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    So its an MPV again?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  17. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    So its an MPV again?
    MRV and it has been since 2015

  18. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Ships with shaft generators run under a Power Take Off principle, can have that arrangement reversed to a Power Take In configuration to drive both shafts with electrical power fed back through a SWX Board. The Shaft Generators become electrical motors. The speed would be less but fine for getting home.
    I am not sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am talking about diesels coupled to electric motors / pods for full power, so that the prime mover can be dedicated to providing on shore power in desaster areas. USS Lexington (CV-2) acted as the powerplant for Tacoma, Washington in 1929/30 when its hydro-electric system failed due to a drought.

  19. #1667
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    Ships in general use a lot of electrical power for combat systems and propulsion. If a ship can take Shore Power then it can deliver power to the capacity of it's generation system. Obviously an all electric ship with gas Turbine or better still Nuclear generation could provide anything from 25mw in a SNN to 50mw or more for a large surface ship. Our tiddlers might produce close to 2 mw depending on size of generators. A Liberty ship with an installed Nuclear plant powered Panama for many years. we could possibly power each other or maybe a Cobh sized town. There would be some redesigning required to deliver power of a compatible nature but it has been done worldwide .

  20. #1668
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    That's my point. 2MW, which i think is actually a high estimate, compared to nearly 11 MW, which is the main propulsion

  21. #1669
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    Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?

  22. #1670
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    P63 has two shafts with two engines at 5000mw each, total 10000mw. Her generators are close to 500kva and she has 3+1.

  23. #1671
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    There are 500 lane metres on HMS Albion to cater for 400 troops and associated vehicles. A mech company maybe around 140 Lane Metres with austere berthage and hygiene facilities for 120 , plus necessary landing facilities.

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  25. #1672
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    P63 has two shafts with two engines at 5000mw each, total 10000mw. Her generators are close to 500kva and she has 3+1.
    I believe you mean kW ...

  26. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    There are 500 lane metres on HMS Albion to cater for 400 troops and associated vehicles. A mech company maybe around 140 Lane Metres with austere berthage and hygiene facilities for 120 , plus necessary landing facilities.
    I like the idea of a JSS like the Canadian one, just not based on the incredibly expensive Berlin class, but the BMT design. The Canadian version manages to add that carrying facility for tome troops to the existing design

  27. #1674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?
    In the region of 130 lane metres (that's only literally a Mech Inf Coy (no attachments, no stores, no tents, etc etc) plus approx 130 personnel.

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  29. #1675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?
    Have a read through this thread, it has been well covered in the past. Even the requirement regarding potential cargo.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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